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Old 02-01-2011, 11:50 AM  
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Greenville, SC
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Oh, by the way...

"A large part of the problem is the Big Three's cozy relationship with the United Auto Workers union (UAW). GM has a $73 hourly wage cost including benefits and overtime. Toyota has five major assembly plants in the U.S. Its hourly wage cost plus benefits is $48. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out which company will be at a competitive disadvantage. Then there's the "jobs bank" feature of the UAW contract where workers who are laid off workers get 95 percent of their base pay and all their benefits. Right now there's a two-year limit but in the past workers could stay in the "jobs bank" forever unless they turned down two job offers within 50 miles of their factory. At one time job bank membership exceeded 7,000 "workers." GM, Ford and Chrysler face other problems that range from poor corporate management and marketing, not to mention costly government regulations."

This is quoted from an article by Walter Williams who is a renowned Professor of economics with impeccable credibility on this subject (economics). If in doubt, look him up.
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Old 02-02-2011, 04:07 PM  
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Westminster, Maryland
Join Date: Oct 2010
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I am going to weigh in on this. I have read most of the post, not all word for word.

I have owned imports and domestic. I will say I have never had an engine in a domestic last more then 125,000 without major work. I have not had an import go less then 300,000.

I bought a new 1975 ford f250 which needed an engine at 45,000, it was the 360M. Ford would not cover under warrenty because I pushed snow with it five or ssix times a year. It was only two years old when the engine failed. I replaced the engine myself and kept it til 1982, three engines later.

I bought a new 1988 ford f250 which had a 460 in it. The engine was a piece of crap from day one. Used three quarts of oil between oil changes which were done every 3,000 miles. In 1994 the frame broke in half right behind the cab. What a piece of crap. Ford said the engine had to use more then a quart every 700 miles in order for them to fix it.

I bought a new 1988 nissan truck at the same time as the ford. I put 378,000 miles on it by 1993. I gave it to my son and he drove it til it was wrecked.

I bought a new 1993 nissan truck and drove it 415,000 miles by 2003 with no trouble at all. Now believe me at this point it was good for nothing but a boat anchor.

I now bought a 2011 silverado and am hoping for the best, I hold me breath everytime I start it and listen for the valve noise and such. I have 7,500 miles on it so far with no trouble but I am waiting.
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Old 02-03-2011, 06:05 AM  
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Greenville, SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmantrapper View Post
I am going to weigh in on this. ...................I have owned imports and domestic. I will say I have never had an engine in a domestic last more then 125,000 without major work. I have not had an import go less then 300,000.
THANK YOU...... I think some folks on here were trying to convince me that I was crazy or losing my mind.....I see the same things as you.
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:41 AM  
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Greenville, SC
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It got awful quiet real quick when I presented the evidence of unions damaging the competitiveness of the American carmakers...
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:34 AM  
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pa
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i venture to comment, like YelloJeep, i'm not looking to upset anyone or step on toes... although i'm sure i will....

I wonder if really it's a much bigger thing. Cars, rather domestic or import, the older they are the better they were built (I feel. based on owning '79 jeep (still), '90 jeep, '03 dodge, '07 jeep (still)-). I'm pretty young, but some of you that might have been around in the 80s, 70s, even 60s, would you agree that the quility of build used to be much better. Even cell phones, for example. I remember my first cell phone (when they could fit in the palm of ur hand- not the big clunky portable wall phones (my dad had one a them). They were built much better and lasted alot long then cell phones today. Companys are building and marketing cheap crap because if it only lasts a yr, consumer has to buy a new one! ... Does anyone happen to know how much waste/trush the US produces.. and compared to other contries??? (sarcazim!)

All this is leading to something.... When i look at the bigger picture, I see cars, cell phones, computers, printers (it's cheaper to buy a whole new printer in some cases then it is to replace the ink cartridges!!??), etc, that are built with poor poor poor quality! Whether it's individuals, corporations, or manufactures people put the all mighty dollar before pride (n quality) on the priority scale. They just want to sell sell sell and manufacture products as the cheapest cost to produce sh*t quality and of course, more money!

You bring up an interesting topic of domestic vs import, but i think it's much bigger then that. I think it's a change of ethics, morals, and character that has changed (for better or worse) every decade and clearly seen through every generation!!.... Let me ask this.. when was the last time you held a door for someone??? when was the last time someone held a door for you?? when was the last time someone smiled at you (for holding the door) and said "thank you" ????? ... think about it.. try it...

Someone said to me once, "find a profession that you enjoy," (we've all heard this) "because otherwise you're going to be working hard doing something you hate so you can afford to do what you love in ur off-time." ... Isn't there a motto "keep your workers happy?" because someone who is happy and enjoys thier trade is more porficient at it and produces a better quality.

I've ranted and raved enough... food for thought!
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:54 AM  
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Greenville, SC
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Yup... I think the "being better built" is a LITTLE off. Not completely though. I have a few thoughts on this. I think that older cars generally used better materials. Now, like you said, it is about being able to produce cars cheaply also. More plastics and such.
Also, the cars are required to absorb impacts so that means a slow collision can virtually destroy a newer car (to "save" the occupants).

I also think that technology has allowed the car makers to overall engineer the cars better. I believe that that also allows them to engineer failure into a vehicle ().
Now whether they do that or not I am not certain.

We as a society always want things cheaper. The companies want us to buy more. I think this can be resulting in some "throwaway" cars. Some cars that don't last very long at all. I do still believe some are trying to make cars that last though.
I know, it sounds like I am going all over the place....
It's almost like they engeneer the cars to last longer mileage wise but everything else gets to be kind of "junky"...Maybe it is so that those with more money will get new cars more frequently but those with less money will just keep buying parts.... $$$ Hmmmm....
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:38 AM  
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,452 | Kudos: +43
Quote:
Originally Posted by 79bornwild View Post
i venture to comment, like YelloJeep, i'm not looking to upset anyone or step on toes... although i'm sure i will....

I wonder if really it's a much bigger thing. Cars, rather domestic or import, the older they are the better they were built (I feel. based on owning '79 jeep (still), '90 jeep, '03 dodge, '07 jeep (still)-). I'm pretty young, but some of you that might have been around in the 80s, 70s, even 60s, would you agree that the quility of build used to be much better. Even cell phones, for example. I remember my first cell phone (when they could fit in the palm of ur hand- not the big clunky portable wall phones (my dad had one a them). They were built much better and lasted alot long then cell phones today. Companys are building and marketing cheap crap because if it only lasts a yr, consumer has to buy a new one! ... Does anyone happen to know how much waste/trush the US produces.. and compared to other contries??? (sarcazim!)

All this is leading to something.... When i look at the bigger picture, I see cars, cell phones, computers, printers (it's cheaper to buy a whole new printer in some cases then it is to replace the ink cartridges!!??), etc, that are built with poor poor poor quality! Whether it's individuals, corporations, or manufactures people put the all mighty dollar before pride (n quality) on the priority scale. They just want to sell sell sell and manufacture products as the cheapest cost to produce sh*t quality and of course, more money!

You bring up an interesting topic of domestic vs import, but i think it's much bigger then that. I think it's a change of ethics, morals, and character that has changed (for better or worse) every decade and clearly seen through every generation!!.... Let me ask this.. when was the last time you held a door for someone??? when was the last time someone held a door for you?? when was the last time someone smiled at you (for holding the door) and said "thank you" ????? ... think about it.. try it...

Someone said to me once, "find a profession that you enjoy," (we've all heard this) "because otherwise you're going to be working hard doing something you hate so you can afford to do what you love in ur off-time." ... Isn't there a motto "keep your workers happy?" because someone who is happy and enjoys thier trade is more porficient at it and produces a better quality.

I've ranted and raved enough... food for thought!
Pure brilliance! I've been saying this for years. I watched a show that pinned all the wasted resources on consumers, but I believe that Corporations are equally to blame, if not more to blame. The name of the show escapes me right now, but was someething about our carbon footprint on the planet. Anyone else recall it?
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:52 AM  
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Greenville, SC
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Musicinabottle, I am curious to know what industry you work in? If you don't mind me asking, of course.
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Old 02-10-2011, 02:49 PM  
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Stafford, Virginia
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Quote:
when was the last time you held a door for someone???
Today She said thank you I said your welcome ma'am.

Quote:
when was the last time someone held a door for you??
Today when I was coming out of the store with my hands full. A man held the door. I looked him in the eye and said thank you sir. He said your welcome.

Not sure where so many people live that everyone is so impolite. I have lived all over even in Jersey you would find polite people. Not as much but they're there.

My wife has a 2004 Toyota Matrix 150,000 miles. All we have ever done was normal stuff fluids, tires, belts ect.... Not a single major problem out of it. I have 1 dash light that I have to smack the gear selector to get to come on at night.

I have a 2007 Saturn Ion 40,000 miles it knocks rattles creeks I have replaced every exterior light on this thing 5 times. The Spoiler in the front is so low that it scrapes on everything it has come lose 4 or 5 times because of this. The tires lasted a whopping 10,000 miles. The cruise control only works part of the time from day one. When I turn a corner and apply the gas it makes a gurgling sound and shudders. The rear view mirror fell off and hit me in the face while I was driving. It burns 1.5 qts of oil between oil changes at 5k (10k is the recommended mileage for oil changes). It started leaking oil from the valve cover at about 5k dealership said it wasn't enough to warrant fixing it. The gas cap went bad at 500 miles. This is is a rolling PILE OF CRAP.... It will be a long time before I invest any of my money into any GM product. The workers are too worried about other things than turning out a high quality product. Toyota is what my next truck will be.
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Old 02-10-2011, 03:09 PM  
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Panama City, FL
Join Date: Feb 2011
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IMHO the make has very little to do with the longevity of the vehicle. It has to do with the owner. I have a couple of vehicles that are now classics, and run and operate just fine...and they are American made.
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