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Old 10-31-2010, 02:21 PM  
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I don't live in CA anymore; but if I were, I would absolutely vote no.
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Old 10-31-2010, 02:41 PM  
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Why?

The New Leaf | Tax Cannabis
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Old 10-31-2010, 04:10 PM  
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No big long reasons I feel like explaining in detail, but I think it's a cop out.

Seems cannabis users are using California's extremely poor financial situation to try and push for this legalization and subsequent taxation - sort of a scare tactic.

Moreso than my feelings on the actual issue, I think California should be responsible, suck it up, and get out of its current financial state - then we can talk about historic legislature.
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Old 10-31-2010, 04:53 PM  
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Unfortunately, politics will always play tag lines and sound bites. You shouldn't spite a good idea because of the manner in which some of its proponents choose to present it! Please don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good my friend.

Proposition 19 is not a cop out for California's budget crisis simply because it may help bring added revenue to the state coffers. Proposition 19 is about repealing a dreadfully harmful and antiquated prohibitionist policy that creates enormous waste by using criminal justice resources to target non-violent citizens who choose to participate in a harmless private activity. This is America, we should be protecting personal freedom while making our government function more efficiency and with less waste.
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:59 AM  
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Unfortunately, it hasn't been marketed in the idealistic manner in which you present it, although I wish it was. At least from what I've watched and read of it (which I don't actively research it, so it's just casual), the major selling point is making money for California, and on the backburner is the issues that you just described to me.

So for that reason, it's kind of black and white for me - like I said, I'm not necessarily against it, but I think that California should clean itself up and get itself not so desperate before throwing something else in the mix.
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:49 AM  
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I don't watch more than two hours of broadcast television per week on average, and I pretty much throw out any pre-sorted standard post mail I receive (which includes all the political bull-****-slinging post cards). What I do is read the election booklet that is sent to me from the Secretary of State, in conjunction with using Google to get the actual text of a measure if I'm still undecided or confused. Even after all of that, there are a couple of propositions this year that do not seem to have a clear edge and I simply refrain from giving an opinion to others on those.

Political "marketing" is really just manipulation and propaganda, and in my honest opinion, should be outlawed in the form of eliminating private election campaigning, while instead setting up debate platforms in every major geographical region that is affected by the given proposition/politician that is in the running. Maybe then people will begin to understand the meat of the issues instead of the over-simplified sound bites that are ever pervasive in our society, and contribute to the dumbing down of our already ignorant masses. // rant

Now, back to this specific topic:
Quote:
I think that California should clean itself up and get itself not so desperate before throwing something else in the mix.
Ending prohibition is a big part of cleaning ourselves up. Our prisons are bursting at the seams (which obviously incurs huge expense to the state in terms of the room, board and prison guards required to maintain such a zoo). Shifting law enforcement priorities toward real crime (which is committed in much smaller numbers), will improve public safety, reduce the prison population thereby saving the state money, and even raise some money in the form of excise taxes.

There isn't one specific thing California must do to "clean itself up", it's going to take a lot of progressive action on many fronts if we are looking toward long term success and sustainability.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:16 PM  
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All of you have good arguments. But the fact is it will cost the government at all levels to training all law enforcement on how to identify someone under the influence as well as how to handle it. The training alone thought out the state of California is already bankrupt will cost it millions more. The only way to test for it now is a blood or urine test and not one officer is going to want to do that in the field, so you cuff them and take the perp to your local E.R. to get him tested. Great! Now, the day it becomes legal every moron that use to stay at home and high will be out supporting his new freedom and the police will be busy hauling all the morons to the E.R.. Now the E.R. is pact and no one can get the life saving help they need do to the fact that the state legalized pot. In the long run it will end up costing the state more than it is worth.
Think about the day it is declared legal and watch traffic collisions double or even triple, due to the ability to smoke pot legally.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:02 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madodge View Post
All of you have good arguments. But the fact is it will cost the government at all levels to training all law enforcement on how to identify someone under the influence as well as how to handle it.
I just don't understand this logic. A field sobriety test is all that is required to determine if someone is too intoxicated to operate a motor vehicle. There are numerous field sobriety tests already taught to law enforcement and especially highway patrol. Most commonly:
  • Walk the line one foot in front of the other.
  • Recite the alphabet with both arms extended, touching your nose with your right index finger for "A", then re-extending your right arm perpendicular to your body, and alternating to your left index finger touching your nose for "B", and so forth.

These are pretty sure fire ways of determining if a person's motor coordination is up to the task of operating a vehicle. A recent article in the L.A. Times in which two people smoked a load of pot and took a drivers course under the authority of the California Highway Patrol, indicated both participants showed impairment across the board after put through field sobriety tests. So clearly, it can be determined relatively easily if someone has had too much.
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Old 11-01-2010, 04:10 PM  
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No

I am 100% for stopping enforcement altogether, but Prop 19 just replaces one type of enforcement with many others. It does push the onus of enforcement more to the local level, but that just means that the laws won't match up from one area to the next, and you will have very pot friendly areas and not so friendly ones.
The proposed tax rates virtually ensure a continued black market. Hell, the mafia still does a healthy trade in running cigarettes around the tax laws.
Once a legal dispensary jumps through all the hoops to sell it, it will be free to market itself as any business would. I am against the marketing of it as I see the wreckage the sex-laden adds have done with alcohol.
Since everyone will be going around the tax laws, we will not get significant revenues. We will continue to pursue and imprison the violent people that are going around the "taxed" route, so the cops will still be busy with it. Finally, the localities will be involved in all sorts of expensive legal bickering for a long time.
There has got to be a better way to do this.
Legalize consumption and production on private property, but make it illegal to sell it. Treat intoxication as intoxication and enforce current laws (while we are at it, make the line for "intoxicated" something realistic, and then put real penalties in place for DUI). Obviously, people would still sell it under the radar, but it would be harder for anyone to do it for a living, and impossible to turn it into an industry. The motivation would be there for people to grow a few plants for them selves, or buy/ trade for it from their neighbor.
This drive to tax it is greed based, and will ultimately kill any hope of doing the right thing.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:56 PM  
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Let's not forget that it'll still be federally illegal, and the DA has promised to crack down hard in California. So, it's not like there's going to be pot shops on every corner even if it is taxed, because the feds would never allow it.

I think it should be a federal thing, not just one state's decision.
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