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Old 09-22-2011, 09:32 AM  
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Originally Posted by havasu View Post
Not true Blucher. As HiHood also stated, let the trial decide, not public perception.
In this case a indicted cop. The majority of cops are hard working honest public servants charged with preserving the public order. And do an excellent job in the process. But there are those who begin to take their authority on a personal, rather than professional level. I've heard it said that if you gave a group of law enforcement officers a psychological exam, such as the MMPI, and gave the same exam to a group of convicted violent offenders, took the results and tossed them in the air, you couldn't tell which individual result went into which group. The difference is how the person behaves that makes a difference.
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Old 09-22-2011, 11:21 AM  
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Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
In this case a indicted cop. The majority of cops are hard working honest public servants charged with preserving the public order. And do an excellent job in the process. But there are those who begin to take their authority on a personal, rather than professional level. I've heard it said that if you gave a group of law enforcement officers a psychological exam, such as the MMPI, and gave the same exam to a group of convicted violent offenders, took the results and tossed them in the air, you couldn't tell which individual result went into which group. The difference is how the person behaves that makes a difference.
yes "INDICTED" not convicted
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Old 09-22-2011, 11:55 AM  
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Having taken the MMPI, I often wonder what difference it makes whether I have had black tarry bowel movements or not. That test is 50 years old and there must be a better test available!
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Old 09-22-2011, 12:30 PM  
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Originally Posted by havasu View Post
Not true Blucher. As HiHood also stated, let the trial decide, not public perception.
The public is barely informed at this point so the "perception" in question is on the part of the District Attorney and his staff.

Quote:
Two Fullerton police officers charged in the death of a homeless man made their first court appearance Wednesday afternoon, and one was set to be released on bail.

Orange County Dist. Atty. Tony Rackauckas took the unusual step of appearing in person for the arraignment of Officers Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli, who are charged in the death of Kelly Thomas, 37. Thomas' father, Ron, also spoke out at Rackauckas' request during the arraignment.

Cicinelli pleaded not guilty to charges of involuntary manslaughter and the use of excessive force. He posted $25,000 bail and was slated to be released Wednesday. His next hearing is set Nov. 4.

Ramos' arraignment on charges of second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter was postponed until Monday, as his attorney is out of town. He remains in custody with bail set at $1 million.

The issue of bail will be revisited Monday. When asked if he opposed a bail reduction, Rackauckas called up Ron Thomas, who asked the judge not to reduce the bail amount because of the "horrific way" his son was killed.

Cicinelli appeared in court in a two-piece suit and appeared calm, while Ramos wore a striped polo shirt. He was handcuffed and appeared nervous.
The judge ordered both officers to surrender their firearms when they are released from custody.

The court appearance came three hours after Rackauckas announced the charges at a dramatic news conference during which he gave a detailed and chilling narrative of the beating that resulted in Thomas' death.

Rackauckas said Thomas begged for his life as Fullerton police officers beat him and Tasered him July 5.

Ramos put latex gloves on his hands and brandished a fist at Thomas. Then, Rackauckas said, the officer, in a "menacing" manner, threatened Thomas: "These fists are ready to F you up."

Scared and bleeding, Thomas begged for his life. No one listened, Rackauckas said.

"Kelly Thomas appeared to be acting in self-defense, in pain, in a state of panic. His numerous pleas of 'I'm sorry,' 'I can't breathe,' 'help,' 'Dad,' all to no avail," Rackauckas said. "Screams, loud screams, didn't help."

"Kelly Thomas was not responding when blows to his face occurred," Rackauckas said, adding, "That is not protecting and serving."


Ramos' attorney, John Barnett, said his client was simply doing his job under difficult conditions when he tried to restrain Thomas.

"Officer Ramos was confronted that evening with a noncompliant suspect with a history of violence," Barnett said. "Officer Ramos had the responsibility and the duty to detain, restrain and arrest him."

Barnett said the district attorney had taken Ramos' threats out of context.

"To characterize that as a justification for Kelly Thomas to leave betrays a complete lack of understanding as to what happens in the street," Barnett said. "This was an attempt to use less force not more.... That does not a murderer make."

A large team of investigators from the Orange County district attorney's office spent 11 weeks combing through a mountain of evidence before a decision was made to file the criminal charges.

Key pieces of evidence included a 30-minute surveillance video taken from a pole camera at the downtown Fullerton bus station and digital audio recording devices carried by Fullerton officers.

Dana Page, Thomas' stepmother, said it was "numbing" to hear Rackauckas recite the details.

She said she was extremely happy with the charges, but said the four other officers involved in the case should also be charged.

"Nothing will bring Kelly back, but we miss him every day," she said. "We'll take the two for now."
Kelly Thomas: Father urges high bail in son's 'horrific' death - latimes.com
Psychopaths need not apply-6a0b-600wi.jpg 

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Old 09-22-2011, 12:52 PM  
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Originally Posted by havasu View Post
Having taken the MMPI, I often wonder what difference it makes whether I have had black tarry bowel movements or not. That test is 50 years old and there must be a better test available!
No turds in the MMPI that I recall. I believe the Jung Typology test is gaining credibility. It's accurate enough to have scared two women I know.

The second was a recently divorced OR woman who first told me what she believed I'd be ranked as in the test and added that she was an ENFJ. Took the test because I already knew she was way off. To my surprise I too am an ENFJ.

Turns out that's very rare so I guess it stunned her a bit. I already knew she'd been hurt and wasn't ready even to date so it worked out well.
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Old 09-22-2011, 01:11 PM  
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I took that MMPI too. Way back, I'm prolly goofy luney by now.

Don't know if those cops are guilty though, thats for the court, I wasn't there, haven't heard or seen the evidence and have never been up to the cop shop academy so sinse I've never been trained to do their job, I'll let them do it.
(I will say that it looks like that one pictured on the left there has obviously been eating too many tacos, pizza & donuts)
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Old 09-22-2011, 01:49 PM  
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(I will say that it looks like that one pictured on the left there has obviously been eating too many tacos, pizza & donuts)
Too many mormon muffins IMO.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:07 PM  
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Too many mormon muffins IMO.
But rather it's tacos, pizzas or donuts or mormon muffins, at this point it's only circumstantial, MUCH of it mind you, but circumstantial.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:18 PM  
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But rather it's tacos, pizzas or donuts or mormon muffins, at this point it's only circumstantial, MUCH of it mind you, but circumstantial.
No one is surprised by police brutality, it's been a problem all along. You will always have some people drawn to the power rather than the duty. Portland has terrible problems but so did LA, Chicago and others.
Cops walk too often and that's not equality under the law.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:31 PM  
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There are good and bad people in all jobs.

What makes me sad is that as tax payers, and more importantly PEOPLE we should expect the police that are hired and paid for by our taxes to protect and serve us, to do just that.
And while some cops are great people, sadly it seems too many are on a power trip, or become an offier to be able to treat citizens like crap and abuse the uniform.

I think its simple, all officers start with a clean slate.
The first time they abuse that power, or assume someone is guilty before its proven, they lie, cheat, steal, beat someone up for no good reason, etc. they are fired without pay immediately.
Then they would clean up their act, or soon be gone, leaving the good people on the job.
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