I understand why animal populations need to be "balanced" but what I don't understand is why the human animal is left unchecked. I'm not talking about hunting people either, but a common sense agreement to only replace ourselves BEFORE we face the consequences of all over populated animals-starvation. It's happening in some places in the world.
This could be a very touchy subject but I just want to say to you Johnnyutah.....BINGO!!!!!! Someone else see's it too! I was using humor to strike upon that point earlier in this thread, but you already get it too. People are so pissed about such frivilous things, but the REAL issues go unnoticed it sure seems. The Wolves and the Mountain lions are "just a thing" in my opinion.
Rain Shadow Game Calls has some sub-adult Mt. lion calls that are effective at bringing in mature lions to your set up. Best use a remote e caller and sit with your back to a tree.
John
I do not want to kill wolves but I may have to. I do not want to see the elk and deer decrease. I do not want to see the wolves wiped out but controlled. They love to kill and if they are not controlled they will wipe out the big game in this state similar to a Liberal with a pile of tax money. It just tastes too good.
Animals have a way of surviving and the earth seems to bounce back no matter how stupid some people are. Wolves, Elk, The Environment and even the National Budget will be alright if we use our heads.
.I was making a comment that was two fold. One, that humans do more to decimate the elk populations than the wolves or the mountain lions, and two, that some hunters merely just like killing things for the sport of it, rather than actually being hungry, or needing the food. I've been around many men who talked about shooting an animal and were actually...... aroused! I just thought that if they enjoyed killing something so much, and were genuinely pissed off about something desimating those poor elk populations, then they should take aim at the real culprit, thereby leaving the elk for critters and men who actually need the food. This way, the sport hunters and food hunters are both made whole.
I hear what the hunters are saying. My question is how many kids do you have? In other words are you as concerned about the overpopulation of your own species as you are about the others. Your #1 competitor for food is other humans. Every animals biggest problem is loss of habitat. If you have more than two kids then your part of the problem. Just counting kids is hard these days, example-his kids, her kids, their kids-aka springer families.
Mike, let me set the table with some distinctions. First off, the links you posted are clearly pro hunter sites and forums. So it's no surprise that you'd see anti wolf sentiment there. Furthermore, and pardon me for saying it....after watching the show about ignorant shifty eyed hunters called "Wild Justice" and seeing all the illegal poaching and trophy hunters, and the carnage and waste they lay to the animal kingdom, I'm frankly stunned that legitimate conservationist hunters in these circles aren't "equally" concerned about all the selfish and ignorant hunters out there giving the other hunters who actually respect the system, a bad name! You forget one thing here, and that is that wolves are genitically wired to hunt and kill. It's their instinct. I'm not disputing that they kill kill kill. Furthermore, I would likely shoot a wolf on site if I even felt the slightest hint of hazard for my family or pets. Not denying that wolves are killers. Here's what I am saying though....... Man, has a history of depletion. At the hands of mankind.......whole species of animals have gone extinct. Others have nearly disappeared because of mankind. Examples of this are the buffalo in our country, and the elephant in other countries, just to spout of two! Mankind has a long and well documented history of taking and exploiting animal species. Heck, some outfits get ahold of old lions that have no teeth left, or are unable to fight back, and these are brought to preserves so that cash paying folks can be taken right to these blind and deaf animals for the kill. Talk about killers! This is why I jumped into this thread. If you're gonna hate something that competes for your sport........hate mankind in general too, because, and here's the clincher.........Wolves just do what is their instinct. But mankind knows better. Ignorance is no excuse. For me, I feel that the numbers relayed in your links are absolute crap. Sure, the numbers would go down, and that would be expected. But the extent of the numbers would suggest to me that in another decade or so, every animal except the wolves, would be gone. This I also know. That for milinia, the wolves and all the elk deer buffalo and moose lived without interference from man, and when the great white hunter arrived here in this country with our surveying equipment, there were plenty of elk deer moose and buffalo. Somehow....Somehow, the wolves didn't manage to wipe everything out. And today is no different. I think it all boils down to the fact that wolves compete with our interests in something we feel is our entitlement. We've never wanted to share anything with anybody, and I could cite numerous examples. To close this thing up, I'm surprisingly not entirely pro wolf. I believe that if the experts deem the population adaquate, then we should allow them to be hunted and the populations controlled.
I hear what the hunters are saying. My question is how many kids do you have? In other words are you as concerned about the overpopulation of your own species as you are about the others. Your #1 competitor for food is other humans. Every animals biggest problem is loss of habitat. If you have more than two kids then your part of the problem. Just counting kids is hard these days, example-his kids, her kids, their kids-aka springer families.
Another great point John, that's never thought about, while we're looking for something else to blame!
Blucher, I tried to put polarisgolds quote in proper terms in your post, but failed miserably! Sorry.
Not to worry. I see we might have a teaching moment. my beloved Yellowstone was the subject of a PBS documentary on the decline of streamside willows and alders.
We (man) walk into an ecosystem thousands of years old and introduce changes. Nature's methods are the stuff of "rocket science". We had removed a piece of a puzzle and thereby affected the Park's entire ecosystem.
Now the streams are showing a return to their old role and animals like elk and mule deer populations are healthier. Wolves prefer the old, injured and slower prey. They're an intrinsic part of "survival of the fittest".
OPB has had several good shows on efforts to recompense local stockmen. Some have imported wolf dogs to protect their herds and it's working well.
Cougars are not fans of man in their immediate vicinity but here in Keizer we have one male in a town park.Hood River's sidewalks have cougars for company. Hopefully our cougars are getting fat on nutria imported into Oregon by fools.
I left the east 6 years ago to live in Oregon's raw beauty. If I'd wanted a wolfless, cougarless world I'd have moved to Iowa.
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I'll believe corporations are persons when Texas executes one.: LBJ's Ghost
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