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Old 08-29-2011, 01:04 PM  
MRB
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$103M is not alot and not even enough of money to spend on expanding Broadband services anywhere. Especially if they're going to try to do it over old, existing, ratty, outside plant which rural America is chuck full of. Hell, most of rural Americas outside plant for any kind of communications service is aerial plant and the poles are either too small to carry any more weight without going up in class size of pole or it's already past the load limit as it stands. The joint pole thing. Existing twist pair cable counts are more than likely saturated and cable spans are most likely chuck full of bad pairs as well. Existing splice closures and splices are usually beyond band aid job repairs / conditioning to get Hi-Cap services to work without complete rebuilds and replacements. Co-ax cables systems for most of rural America is in near the same boat as twist pair services.

So $103M isn't going to buy much of anything. Or in other words, it's not going to make a difference at all for rural Americas Broadband services. Just a waste of money as it's not enough to begin to start an upgrade program most anywhere.
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Old 08-29-2011, 03:13 PM  
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of course there's the dependence on electricity, fossil fuels and and Western Civilization. OMG!, we're DOOMED
Just for fun


















I know you love pics!
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:18 PM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
Hey, I wasn't trying to get folks all wound up... Look, I too have found invaluable info on working on my jeep also. And yes, maybe there are planty of folks who would do fine. But, (you may disagree) I do feel that there are MANY folks out there who would be lost without their Twitter, Facebook, Ebay and their Internet phones so they can always be connected. Hey, don't get me wrong I use Facebook and Ebay on occasion. I think they are good tools, and you can benefit from them. I just don't believe that they should be considered a NECESSITY. Next thing you know, it will be a car. Or a cellphone (oh wait, some places the government is providing those too).
We continue down this road and everyone is going to have the same thing regardless of how hard they have worked (or haven't) to get them.
I still think that it is sad if I cannot make a purchase at a business when their "computers are down".
My company's entire business is done online. I'm the first person to get called when someone notices "The computers are down". (And most of the time, I already know about the outage and I'm fixing the problem)

There's simply no other reliable, cost-effective method available for me to reliably move photos and reports from "the field" (a 50-mile radius around my office) to my office, and then for the personnel at the office to transfer the photos to our clients in the time frame our clients demand. (We tried SMS and picture messages for awhile, but the failure rate is surprisingly high for such a mature service, and camera phones don't have the optical zoom that we need for distant detail shots)

But yes, I get what you're saying about doing business once the computers go down, especially with retailers. My personal peeve is when credit card terminals go down, because I don't carry more than a few dollars in cash, and then only for emergencies.

But, there are a LOT of businesses like mine that are extremely reliant on internet services, jobs that simply could not exist without the capabilities the internet provides. Jobs that require a working knowledge of computers and networking. Jobs that can be done from the home (Useful for single parents who can't afford daycare) Jobs that can provide the extra hours needed to make ends meet when an entry-level full-time job isn't enough to support a family without additional public assistance.

No, internet access is not as basic a need as food or shelter or clothing. I would rank phone service (and cell phones are comparable or cheaper than landlines at this point) ahead of internet. But, I'd rank internet access ahead of a car in most cases. Definitely ahead of cable TV.

I'd say that internet access is absolutely essential for families with school-age children, to ensure kids possess the computer skills expected of even entry-level, high-school dropout employees, let alone college students and professionals. If we're going to pay for assistance, why not pay for enough assistance to allow for the opportunity to support themselves? If we're going to pay for a lifetime of assistance for a parent, why not give their kids what they need to *not* require such assistance?
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Old 08-29-2011, 08:21 PM  
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Originally Posted by MRB View Post
$103M is not alot and not even enough of money to spend on expanding Broadband services anywhere. Especially if they're going to try to do it over old, existing, ratty, outside plant which rural America is chuck full of. Hell, most of rural Americas outside plant for any kind of communications service is aerial plant and the poles are either too small to carry any more weight without going up in class size of pole or it's already past the load limit as it stands. The joint pole thing. Existing twist pair cable counts are more than likely saturated and cable spans are most likely chuck full of bad pairs as well. Existing splice closures and splices are usually beyond band aid job repairs / conditioning to get Hi-Cap services to work without complete rebuilds and replacements. Co-ax cables systems for most of rural America is in near the same boat as twist pair services.

So $103M isn't going to buy much of anything. Or in other words, it's not going to make a difference at all for rural Americas Broadband services. Just a waste of money as it's not enough to begin to start an upgrade program most anywhere.
Do you know that to be the case in the specific places where this money is going to be spent? We *know* it won't be profitable for a long while, otherwise providers would have dont it themselves. Then again, not many government projects create immediate profitability. In the long run, however, a lot do.
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:44 PM  
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Do you know that to be the case in the specific places where this money is going to be spent? We *know* it won't be profitable for a long while, otherwise providers would have dont it themselves. Then again, not many government projects create immediate profitability. In the long run, however, a lot do.
And, in the long run most government projects manage to be examples of inefficiency and targets for opportunists.
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Old 08-30-2011, 06:40 AM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
.............But, there are a LOT of businesses like mine that are extremely reliant on internet services, jobs that simply could not exist without the capabilities the internet provides. Jobs that require a working knowledge of computers and networking. Jobs that can be done from the home (Useful for single parents who can't afford daycare) Jobs that can provide the extra hours needed to make ends meet when an entry-level full-time job isn't enough to support a family without additional public assistance.

No, internet access is not as basic a need as food or shelter or clothing. I would rank phone service (and cell phones are comparable or cheaper than landlines at this point) ahead of internet. But, I'd rank internet access ahead of a car in most cases. Definitely ahead of cable TV.

I'd say that internet access is absolutely essential for families with school-age children, to ensure kids possess the computer skills expected of even entry-level, high-school dropout employees, let alone college students and professionals. If we're going to pay for assistance, why not pay for enough assistance to allow for the opportunity to support themselves? If we're going to pay for a lifetime of assistance for a parent, why not give their kids what they need to *not* require such assistance?
I understand and respect the fact that some work is done from home over the internet (I do not believe it to be a high percentage of the population though). I have a feeling though that it is not enough to justify providing or subsidizing the service for a whole area of people. And as far as it being more important than a car... Well, maybe if you live somewhere where there is public transit. I would be pretty much screwed without transportation. It probably depends where you live. I would be a whole lot more open to it if there was some way to ensure that the folks TRULY NEEDED IT. Just like all the other handouts, if they are recieving the handout so they can afford their car payment or cable then I am against it. If they can afford nothing (internet, cable, and FANCY cellphones included) then maybe they need some help.
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:11 PM  
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A few years ago to down size my business and cut costs I gave up my office lease space and moved my office to my home. I have an unusually high speed internet service for a residence that I pay extra for. I can at times hog up alot of bandwidth. It is true that these type of services are not common in a home due to the expense which my business can justify.

One day, and who knows when in this economy, I'll once again ford the expense of an office lease space and be somewhat normal again in regards to where this type of internet service truely belongs. Also maybe the time will come once again that I can hire a seceratary or two like back like in the old days when I could afford such frivolous things to do all my office work.
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Old 08-30-2011, 12:38 PM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
Just for fun



I know you love pics!
I'm waiting to see your coloring books next.
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Old 08-30-2011, 01:03 PM  
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I'm waiting to see your coloring books next.



































Figured you'd like that!






Oh, and for you liberals out there!

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Old 08-30-2011, 03:01 PM  
MRB
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
Do you know that to be the case in the specific places where this money is going to be spent? We *know* it won't be profitable for a long while, otherwise providers would have dont it themselves. Then again, not many government projects create immediate profitability. In the long run, however, a lot do.
I've been in the telecom contracting business for over 20 years now. My company does construction and maintaince of outside plant in the regulated side as well as the deregulated side of the industry. The majority of the 20 years I've been in this business, in one form or another, I've mostly worked in the regulated side of the industry. Regulated being the telephone utility companies.

It will never be profitable even in a thousand years if they try to do it over land line plant in these low density populated areas of rural Amraica. The cost of the material and equipment let alone the cost of labor to build it out will be prohibitive. $103M wouldn't even be a drop in the bucket to commence such a project. Also the low population densities and the possible amount of subscribers are not enough to carry the cost to operate these systems if they ever did build it out over land line plant. The government money allocated will have to go to the existing utility companies to facilitate this. The utility companies own the infrustructure that will be used in these areas already.


The only way I could see that it could be done is through sattilite dish systems like you get your TV over. At present some sattilite dish companies offer internet through their system but it still is slow, spendy, and schetchy, at best. I don't see any time in the near future that it will change either.
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