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Old 12-21-2011, 07:45 PM  
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Originally Posted by oldognewtrick View Post
Our debt as it stands at present is somewhere around 14 trillion. When you factor in all the unfunded long term debt, social security, welfare, medi-care, medi-caid, military retirements, all the entitlement programs the unfunded long term debt exceeds 211 TRILLION dollars. I can't even type that many zeros. We can never begin to wrap our arms around this insanity. This isn't reckless, this is criminal. Source? CBO.

As a ratio of debt-to-gdp, our debt is among the lowest in the western world. LONG before we will have any trouble, every other first-world nation on the planet will have gone bankrupt.

At this level, debt does not function in any way that even begins to resemble consumer-grade debt.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:53 PM  
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We should all just vOte for Barry again....im sure "it will be even better this tiMe"

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Old 12-21-2011, 11:12 PM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
As a ratio of debt-to-gdp, our debt is among the lowest in the western world. LONG before we will have any trouble, every other first-world nation on the planet will have gone bankrupt.

At this level, debt does not function in any way that even begins to resemble consumer-grade debt.
Just like the teenagers, everyone's doing it. After all Greece is in worse shape than us, charge (pun intended) on!
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:34 AM  
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It's like taking on debt to go to medical school. These nations are spending, building their economies, building their capabilities, and in the future, they will have radically improved GDPs. We're cutting our spending, cutting our infrastructure improvements. Our GDP will not improve nearly as much. Your advice will have our economy continually slipping towards second place, or further back, while the rest of the world moves ahead.

All because you don't understand the differences between consumer-grade debt with interest rates 2 to 10 times inflation and nation-grade debt with interest rates of .9 to 1.1 times inflation.
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:49 AM  
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So ...? We should get into a "spending War" with the wOrld ?
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:49 PM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
All because you don't understand the differences between consumer-grade debt with interest rates 2 to 10 times inflation and nation-grade debt with interest rates of .9 to 1.1 times inflation.
The fact is that somewhere around half the national debt is short term, so using dollar averaging it is repaid with real value dollars. Another fact is that self-serving politicians are spending the money frivolously rather than on infrastructure, and that is why the theory only looks good on paper.
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Old 12-23-2011, 08:30 AM  
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We actually own more of our own debt than the Chinese do through bonds. That is actually a double whammy when you look at it. We owe not only the Chi Coms, but are now the largest holders of our own debt. At the pace we are on currently and the pace that this president wants to take us the EU meltdown is a pitance in comparison to what is waiting in the wings wehen the reaper comes a calling on our debt problem. The next big bubble waiting to burst is student loans. We can not continue to just keep writting down all of this credit that went out through the home loan fiasco and now the student loan fiasco. The real thing that needs to occur is the hard thing that no one actually wants to face and that is a severe reduction across the board in all agencys and departments. The elimination of many and the hard desicions on cutting back on all social programs. It is a hard pill to swallow for many but it needs to occur otherwise we are done! We have to do it in our own lives when it is warented and our country as a whole needs to do so as well. On a personal level I have had to do so many times, I did three years ago after adivorce and learned that you can live off of very meager means and still get by. Today I have no outstanding debt besides my car payment and that is almost done, I have no cards any longer and do not miss them one bit. Paid cash for all the Christmas gifts and they were not cheap this year, but leaving the holidays not owing a dime to anyone. It is a great feeling, and it is something we as a society need to start shifting to so that we all can come throught the hard times that are coming.
1 in two americans are now poor or low income.-248269_204247136277468_100000765482913_461336_8291768_n.jpg 

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Old 12-23-2011, 10:17 AM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
I love how the answer to our economic woes - where money in the national and local economies isn't being exchanged for products and services - is to drastically cut consumer spending.

Brilliant.
Okay, backing up a little bit.... So you think we should all do our part and spend even more money that we don't have? So am I part of the problem since I don't go out and buy a bunch of new junk?
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Old 12-23-2011, 10:37 AM  
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Okay, backing up a little bit.... So you think we should all do our part and spend even more money that we don't have? So am I part of the problem since I don't go out and buy a bunch of new junk?
He left without saying good-bye "for the yEar"....lol
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Old 12-23-2011, 11:20 AM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
The fact is that somewhere around half the national debt is short term, so using dollar averaging it is repaid with real value dollars.
Now we're getting somewhere.

What is the return on T-Bills, the main vehicle of federal government debt? Why are they considered a stable, modest, conservative investment and not a highly lucrative investment?

You can't have it both ways. Either the federal government is pissing away our money with interest, or the federal government is pretty much matching inflation with the interest it pays.

The latter is closer to the truth.
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Another fact is that self-serving politicians are spending the money frivolously rather than on infrastructure, and that is why the theory only looks good on paper.
Depending on who you talk to, military spending and highway spending are considered "frivolous". Others would consider them infrastructure expenses. Yes, the federal government spends some money on programs I don't consider important. Others consider those programs vital. We live in a representative democracy.
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