2012 Huckabee - Page 4 - National Politics / Debate

flaja · 05-16-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ

again, using very indirect logic, I have specifically stated we are not arguing christianity was the major religion at the time, it certainly was and as such that day would be off, and the supreme court has ruled that having sundays as a day of rest or other blue laws are not a religious as long as the law is for a secular reason, and being that the majority of people take that day is considered secular, so it either is or it isn't but the supreme court (republican leaning I believe) has stated it to not be a religious day and as such I would expect the constitution to be looked at in the same light

it does not say "sabbath" it says "sunday", there is a difference

Why specify Sunday if not because it is the Christian Sabbath? What would be so unusual about Sunday that the Constitution needs to give it special status if Sunday weren't the Christian Sabbath?

If the Constitution meant to exclude Christians from government, why does it recognize Sunday as a special day? Why not Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath or Friday, the Muslim Sabbath- why recognize any day at all as something unusual if not for religious reasons?

RedJeepXJ · 05-16-2011, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flaja

Why specify Sunday if not because it is the Christian Sabbath? What would be so unusual about Sunday that the Constitution needs to give it special status if Sunday weren't the Christian Sabbath?

If the Constitution meant to exclude Christians from government, why does it recognize Sunday as a special day? Why not Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath or Friday, the Muslim Sabbath- why recognize any day at all as something unusual if not for religious reasons?

again you are making leaps, by your logic a majority of corporations must be christian as they have sunday off, yes that day is excluded because the majority of citizens are christians and would exclude the day anyways, appeasing the majority does not equal anything more then that, just appeasing.

I assume you take saturday and sunday off, so are you both muslim and christian, why choose those two days?......... because everyone else does......

blucher · 05-16-2011, 02:51 PM

Blacks are no longer our largest minority and our largest minority should become the majority in about a decade. The new majority may be Christian but is largely Catholic and has Spanish as a first language.

Our laws try not to defer to each new alteration in demographics but it might be wise to keep the state at arms length lest the changes today come back later to haunt us.

flaja · 05-16-2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ

again you are making leaps, by your logic a majority of corporations must be christian as they have sunday off,

Documentation? Where I live most retail corporations are open for business on Sunday.

And I doubt that many shipping and transportation corporations now recognize anyone?s Sabbath day.

Hotels and motel corporations don?t throw people out on anyone?s Sabbath day.

If it costs a factory a bunch of money to open its doors and get all of its equipment running again after a day off, do you really think the corporation that owns the factory is going to acknowledge a Sabbath day?

And suppose that a majority of the U.S. population were Christian and thus observed a Sabbath day. What would you expect corporations, who need employees, do other than recognize the day that most people use as their Sabbath?

Quote:

yes that day is excluded because the majority of citizens are christians and would exclude the day anyways, appeasing the majority does not equal anything more then that, just appeasing.

Appealing to the majority?s religious practice means recognizing and upholding the majority?s religion. The Constitution would not mention anyone?s Sabbath if the Constitution meant to protect the government from people?s religious views.

Quote:

I assume you take saturday and sunday off,

Being unemployed means it doesn?t matter.

Quote:

so are you both muslim and christian,

Muslim? What do Saturday and Sunday have to do with Muslims?

Quote:

why choose those two days?......... because everyone else does......

As far as I am concerned all Sabbath regulations as a day of rest were made null and void when Jesus Christ rose from the dead. As He says the Sabbath is made for man; man is not made for the Sabbath. I can worship or not on any day of the week, so no day has any unusual significance for me. But I cannot speak for the American majority now or in the past.

blucher · 05-17-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

?I therefore beg leave to move -- that henceforth prayers imploring the
assistance of Heaven, and its blessings on our deliberations, be held in
this Assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one
or more of the Clergy of this City be requested to officiate in that
Service ??

Franklin?s motion was seconded by Roger Sherman.

Alexander Hamilton and other delegates agreed that prayer was proper, but Franklin?s motion should have been introduced at the start of the Convention. Praying after the Convention had been in progress for some time could alarm the public because it would indicate that the delegates were not getting along.

Well I guess we gave up being concerned when Congress won't play nice with eachother.
In the end they merely agreed to a sermon on the next 4th of July rather than officially including prayer as a daily feature of Congress.

Europe in the distant to recent past had been a litany of religious repressions from end to end. Jews, Catholics, atheists, gypsies and other groups were regularly in motion trying to escape expulsion and/or death. No one in our colonies wanted to plant the seeds of such oppression in America although I'm sure individual groups thought their ISM should reign supreme.

Funny that old Ben suggested it since he probably had a better grasp on the 7 deadly sins than most. I will grant that Ben's suggestion of the turkey as our national bird looked pretty smart at times.....

flaja · 05-17-2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blucher

In the end they merely agreed to a sermon on the next 4th of July rather than officially including prayer as a daily feature of Congress.

On the contrary. Madison's Notes do indicate that the Convention adopted Randolph's motion that called for daily prayer in the Convention.

Quote:

No one in our colonies wanted to plant the seeds of such oppression in America although I'm sure individual groups thought their ISM should reign supreme.

That oppression ended up in the Colonies anyway. Both Rhode Island and Connecticut were established by refugees from the Massachusetts colony who did not accept that colony's government mandated congregational church.