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Old 08-22-2012, 07:26 PM  
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The countries that have socialized health care, are all ranked above us in quality of care.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:40 AM  
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The countries that have socialized health care, are all ranked above us in quality of care.
Are you sure all of them are? BTW I wouldn't care to live in any of them.
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:43 AM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
or our safety right? fire/police/military why should we ask such things from the government when the free market has such great solutions, oh wait, those are the reasons people FORM governments and healthcare fits perfectly along those lines.
Wow, I see why socialism is on the increase!
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Old 08-23-2012, 12:20 PM  
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Are you sure all of them are? BTW I wouldn't care to live in any of them.
They probably would not want you either. So you are even.
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Old 08-24-2012, 10:31 AM  
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They probably would not want you either. So you are even.
I have only seen Russia, Siberia and Ethiopia and their healthcare is lousy. I have a Norwegian friend who says we are far above their healthcare, as for the rest I have my suspicions that the elite fare better than the masses (maybe that's true everywhere).

Prisons have good health care systems but I had rather be on the outside, freedom is too precious to trade for healthcare.
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Old 08-24-2012, 07:06 PM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
The government should not be responsible for our health insurance.
The government is NOT responsible for our health insurance. Do you not understand the difference between "Single Payer" (which we don't have under Obama/RomneyCare) and "Individual Mandate" (which we do have under Romney/ObamaCare)?

Most of Europe and several other parts of the world have a Single Payer, Universal Coverage, "Socialist" system, where health care is treated much like a water fountain in a public park: free to anyone who shows up and wants it. Under such a system, the government is solely responsible for health care and health care coverage.

We don't have that. We have a Private Insurance, Individual Mandate, Competitive, Capitalist system, where we are required to pay for our own coverage, but we get to decide how we pay for our coverage, and to who we pay for our coverage. Under our system, *we* are solely responsible for our own health care coverage.

Their system is a big-brother, nanny state where the government removes all choice and dictates how everything will happen. Ours is a system where the deadbeat slackers among us are charged for their deadbeat slackerdom. No longer are they allowed to be parasites on our backs.

The individual mandate is a truly conservative health care reform, and conservatives should be jumping in the streets taking credit for the concessions they demanded of liberals.
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Old 08-26-2012, 09:30 AM  
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Let's check the definition of "individual mandate" to see if it's something a conservative (or anyone who loves freedom) would want:
Quote:
Individual mandate, an often controversial government requirement for the purchase of goods by individuals
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Old 08-26-2012, 05:36 PM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
Let's check the definition of "individual mandate" to see if it's something a conservative (or anyone who loves freedom) would want:
The options are these:
1. Universal, singer-payer coverage - government is responsible for everything

2. Completely private w/ "humanitarian" coverage - This is the current status before Obamacare takes effect. Individuals and private insurers are responsible for everything. Health care providers treat everyone on an emergency basis. Scumbags pay nothing, and leach off of paying customers.

3. Individual mandate - everyone is required to pay their own way. Scumbags are punished for refusing to do so.

Given the three options, true conservatives could only approve of #3.

I anticipate that you would suggest a 4th option: completely private, no humanitarian coverage. If you have no insurance and you have a hunk of rebar lodged in your neck, it sucks to be you. This system has practically no political support. The public doesn't want it - at all.
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Old 08-26-2012, 06:07 PM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
The options are these:
1. Universal, singer-payer coverage - government is responsible for everything

2. Completely private w/ "humanitarian" coverage - This is the current status before Obamacare takes effect. Individuals and private insurers are responsible for everything. Health care providers treat everyone on an emergency basis. Scumbags pay nothing, and leach off of paying customers.

3. Individual mandate - everyone is required to pay their own way. Scumbags are punished for refusing to do so.

Given the three options, true conservatives could only approve of #3.

I anticipate that you would suggest a 4th option: completely private, no humanitarian coverage. If you have no insurance and you have a hunk of rebar lodged in your neck, it sucks to be you. This system has practically no political support. The public doesn't want it - at all.
excellent post, it is easy to say the 4th option is valid and many people do claim to want that but I bet if they or their friends/family member were denied critical treatment because they didn't have their insurance card at that moment that tune would change real quick.

of the available theoretical options that exist "obamacare"/ACA is the best compromise and a true compromise at that (it is essentially a republican plan). Republicans need to be wary of romney, somehow he claims to want to keep all the "good" aspects of obamacare except the mandate, so who pays in that case? we need to be rational and compromise, no one will be 100% happy, that is a burden of living in a civilization, compromises must be made.
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Old 08-26-2012, 07:28 PM  
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I recall when medicare was the government's solution to healthcare and I was forced to pay into it. It was planned by the government and came in wildly over budget and the government couldn't manage it, now the answer is more government (and more debt).

According to a Forbes op-ed
Quote:
President Obama believes in bigger government programs, funded by more taxes, with more control entrusted to the federal government to determine costs and access. Governor Romney believes in competition from the private sector and trusts individual Americans with the power and the right to choose for themselves and their families. see: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottatl...are-safey-net/
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