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Old 01-23-2011, 10:17 PM  
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Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by havasu View Post
But I guess the big question is: Until some reform is implemented, why should I pay when my neighbor doesn't have to? We still both get the same treatment, don't we? This is a very slippery slope.
No, you will not get the same treatment if you don't have insurance. If you visit the emergency room without insurance, we will stabilize you, but not heal you.

If you have insurance, we will treat you as far as we can and after this, we will refer you to a family doctor, or, if so required, to a specialist so you can get healed!

If you have a chronic illness, and don't have insurance, we will treat the current symptoms, and send you home.

If you have insurance, we will work with a specialist to ensure continued treatment.
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Old 01-23-2011, 10:41 PM  
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Since my father was an Independant Insurance Agent for 40+ years, every night I would hear horror stories of what happens when you fail to have enough coverage. Because of this upbringing, I would never cancel my insurance. If anything, I am extremely insurance heavy. I just do not like paying more than I need to, just to cover those who can't or won't, but it is the American way.
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:03 AM  
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Originally Posted by havasu View Post
Since my father was an Independant Insurance Agent for 40+ years, every night I would hear horror stories of what happens when you fail to have enough coverage. Because of this upbringing, I would never cancel my insurance. If anything, I am extremely insurance heavy. I just do not like paying more than I need to, just to cover those who can't or won't, but it is the American way.
*Scratching my head in befuddlement*

If those who don't have insurance experience horror stories as a result, the implication is they are not covered and must go bankrupt, sell their homes, etc. to pay medical costs.

But then you say your rates are high to cover those who can't or won't pay for insurance.

Which is it? Or did I misunderstand?
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:55 AM  
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Sorry for the confusion. I diverted from health care to car insurance to make a point of the insurance mentality in my bones.

I guess the bottom line of my banter is the fact that although I hate the government sticking their noses into my well being, without it I will be faced to continue paying thru the nose for my healthcare.

This is the slippery slope I was referring to.
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:23 AM  
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On a tangential note on the issue of insurance fraud, here's a little story making the rounds up my way.

One of our long-time Republican state senators, Jim Alesi, three years ago found himself, late one winter Saturday afternoon, looking at a new housing development. Rather than contact the name and number on the sign out front of the model home, Alesi took it upon himself to venture onto a property where a house was being built. The owners weren't there. The developers weren't there. No one was.

Finding the front door locked, Alesi went around back and found a way in through a basement door. The stairwell from the basement to the main floor had not been built yet, and the builders used an aluminum ladder to get from one floor to another. Mr. Alesi, whose shoes were probably snowy, started to go up the ladder, slipped, fell, and broke his leg.

Alesi called the Sheriff who arranged to have Alesi taken to the hospital. But then the Sheriff called the developer and asked if they wanted to press trespassing charges. The developer said they couldn't press charges and that the Sheriff would need to call the owners of the property, a retired couple in their 70's. The Sheriff called them and the couple decided not to add insult to injury and press charges, figuring the good Senator had learned his lesson the hard way.

In New York, the statute of limitations to press charges for trespassing is two years. Also, there were the November elections which Alesi wanted to get through, in which he was re-elected. Finally, there is a three-year civil suit statute of limitations which expired last Friday.

And last Friday, our scum-sucking idiot greedy b*stard state Senator, Jim Alesi, filed a law suit against the homeowners for pain and suffering and a lingering problem with his leg. He waited until the very day when the homeowners could no longer touch him.

Almost certainly, Alesi doesn't want this to actually go to trial, because it would come out that he was there illegally. Instead, he's looking for a settlement -- a payday where insurance companies will settle and pay him a bunch of dough for his being a dumb-ass.

Ironically, Alesi pushed for legislation in New York that barred employees and contractors of developers from suing the developer if they suffered any injury on the job. Let me say that again: Alesi says that if you're invited onto a work site and lawfully going about your business and you hurt yourself, that's too bad; suck it up. But if you're a fat-cat politician who's trespassing on a work site and you hurt yourself, then you can get a big payout.

What's wrong with this picture?
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:53 AM  
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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
My heart goes out to you for the situation you're in. If you want to give more info on the circumstances, maybe the folks here could offer suggestions that could help you. (I'm not suggesting you release personal info...just what your condition is, what you've tried, etc. There might be options out there you haven't heard of.)

I'm sure you're a great, upstanding guy who works very hard, and I appreciate and applaud your work ethic. Unfortunately, fairness is a nice fairy-tale concept but it doesn't exist in nature.

In being against Obamacare, I'm not trying to deny you anything other than the opportunity to take my money without my consent: You don't have a right to demand that I contribute to pay for something you can't afford and to use the government -- and by extension, the threat of violent force -- to see that it happens.

For the record, I've been poor and without health care. I'm not rich today. But if I lost my job tomorrow, I wouldn't demand you or anyone else pay for things I need. I guess it's a matter of different fundamental principles.
I'm not saying it should be fair. I'm saying that I should have access to it. I didn't make the restrictions, I didn't force the legislation, I didn't send the jobs over seas, I didn't jack up the rates, I didn't, the list can keep going.

What I'm saying is it's backwards government policy, backwards capitalism, backwards everything that made it this way, why do I have to suffer from decisions made by the rich?

I'm not looking for fair, I'm asking for health. I can pay, not much though.

Take you money without consent? I guarantee you the government is spending your money on something you don't like, you have no right to refuse it, welcome to the Republic. Poor people on the left.

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Originally Posted by Motorcharge View Post
Similar situation (though I get mine back next month due to obamacare) though I don't support a government option or the vast majority of the Obamacare bill. There are parts I do support in it though, like the regulations that make it so insurance companies can't deny you based on pre-existing conditions. The bill did do some good. I'm not against reform, I'm against more requirements, taxes, and government power.
I'm not either, but this isn't something that's going to fix itself.

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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
No, free-market access would improve quality and access. It's only when you introduce the government into the mix that the free-market nature of this entire industry goes away and costs soar.


I do not advocate giving people free access. If a hospital, doctor or other caregiver wishes to establish a policy of providing free care to those who truly can't pay, that's up to them. But the mandate that a hospital must tend to anyone who walks into the Emergency room doors whether they can pay or not is wrong. As you say, this is being abused terribly, and it's costing us dearly. So rather than spread the cost around by spreading our wealth around, how 'bout we just stop with the hand-outs instead?

There are ways, at the community level, to establish means to provide health care for those who need it but can't pay. That's how we used to do things in this country and that's what we must get back to.
The free market doesn't work. Especially when it comes to a Global economy. Even a national one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by havasu View Post
But I guess the big question is: Until some reform is implemented, why should I pay when my neighbor doesn't have to? We still both get the same treatment, don't we? This is a very slippery slope.
Life isn't fair. That's what the argument is about. Nothing is fair, it never will be.

Let's try to make sick people not sick. Let's try to not have people die from being poor. Is that fair?
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:08 PM  
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Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by havasu View Post
Since my father was an Independant Insurance Agent for 40+ years, every night I would hear horror stories of what happens when you fail to have enough coverage. Because of this upbringing, I would never cancel my insurance. If anything, I am extremely insurance heavy. I just do not like paying more than I need to, just to cover those who can't or won't, but it is the American way.
But you do that anyway. I bet you have uninsured motor vehicle coverage with you insurance. And you have that to pay for others that don't!
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:17 PM  
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Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by Brian View Post

What's wrong with this picture?
Everything! That scum bag should be kicked out of office as fast as possible!
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:38 PM  
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Originally Posted by Hudsoner View Post
Everything! That scum bag should be kicked out of office as fast as possible!
On this you and I see eye-to-eye 100%. Well said, Hudsoner.
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:45 PM  
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Originally Posted by Funetical View Post
I'm not saying it should be fair. I'm saying that I should have access to it. I didn't make the restrictions, I didn't force the legislation, I didn't send the jobs over seas, I didn't jack up the rates, I didn't, the list can keep going.
Yeah, I hear you. That stinks out loud, but you already know that.

Still, I have to wonder if there are some options you may not yet be aware of that could help you. If you want to post any info that could help us track down options, I'd volunteer to do some searching and calling on your behalf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funetical View Post
Take you money without consent? I guarantee you the government is spending your money on something you don't like, you have no right to refuse it, welcome to the Republic. Poor people on the left.
Oh, I'm acutely aware of that. And it bothers the bejeebus out of me.

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Originally Posted by Funetical View Post
The free market doesn't work. Especially when it comes to a Global economy. Even a national one.
I'm not looking for free-market capitalism all over the globe (but it would be nice if it were to happen). I'm only looking for it in this country. There are very few examples of it ever taking place, sadly.

Understand the difference: I'm not calling for anarcho-capitalism where monopolies, cartels, trusts and corporatism can run rampant. Far from it; that's where we are today and it's very wrong.

I'm just saying there could be solutions to your situation -- because you're not the only guy with this problem -- that can be done in a just and reasonable fashion that you can afford and which will get you at least a better degree of coverage than you have now. Turning to government to provide a "public option" (which only serves to put private options out of business and thus nationalize the health insurance industry) isn't the best choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Funetical View Post
Let's try to make sick people not sick. Let's try to not have people die from being poor. Is that fair?
It's certainly reasonable! We both agree you should be able to get the care and coverage you need. We just differ, maybe, on the means for you to get it.
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