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Old 02-11-2012, 10:05 PM  
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Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
I understand what you are saying and am just curious. How would you handle a catastrophic illness like, God forbid, cancer? Or a heart attack? Tough position to be in and I'm sure there is no easy answer, only the lesser of evils.
I honestly don't know.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:13 AM  
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It may come down to whether we prefer socialism over freedom. I prefer freedom because the government may decide who lives and dies anyway when it gains total control. A doctor friend told me last week that death panels are real.
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Old 02-12-2012, 11:51 AM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
It may come down to whether we prefer socialism over freedom. I prefer freedom because the government may decide who lives and dies anyway when it gains total control. A doctor friend told me last week that death panels are real.
Yes, although they do not go by name "death panel" essentially that is what they are. Usually composed of department heads, typically the head of the cancer treatment service since that is what most people have who come before the panel, a radiologist and others including the head of the hospital ethics committee and a minister. I'm sure they usually have a chair reserved for a lawyer as well. The problem with dying is not dying, the problem is we don't know how to die. Or when. We expect to live forever and demand too much from our health care providers using resources that can be used on others and in the process subjecting patients to treatments that could reasonably described as torture. All in the name of, not saving the patient/ family member, be in relieving our own conscious that "we did everything we could". Want to know who accepts mortality and are more willing to say "no" to curative treatments for conditions and diseases that can't be cured? >http://zocalopublicsquare.org/thepub...ie/read/nexus/
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Old 02-12-2012, 01:28 PM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
It may come down to whether we prefer socialism over freedom. I prefer freedom because the government may decide who lives and dies anyway when it gains total control. A doctor friend told me last week that death panels are real.
again, a statement full of right wing falsehoods

it is still an insurer/patient relationship

with the existing system you love so much there are very very real death panels, the people who work at insurers that decide the patient can't afford to fight the insurer for care that they agreed to pay or find some way to exclude a patient from getting care. They tell themselves they are just not paying, not preventing care, but really who can afford a couple hundred grand for cancer treatments?

ObamaCare fixes much of this. so yes there are death panels, and Obama is getting rid of them, the republicans however wanted to greatly expand them through the great scam of cross state selling. which would have reduced coverage to nothing with no protections for the consumer, leaving the only acceptable health insurance employer based health insurance so people would be slaves to companies because that is the only way to get reliable health coverage in america.
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:34 AM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
ObamaCare fixes much of this. so yes there are death panels, and Obama is getting rid of them, the republicans however wanted to greatly expand them through the great scam of cross state selling. which would have reduced coverage to nothing with no protections for the consumer, leaving the only acceptable health insurance employer based health insurance so people would be slaves to companies because that is the only way to get reliable health coverage in america.
According to the doctor there are new death panels in Obamacare.
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Old 02-13-2012, 04:11 PM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
According to the doctor there are new death panels in Obamacare.
*THE* doctor?????????????

there is just one now?

Eddie seriously? quit this agenda to post information with nothing backing it up, I can post junk as well, the republicans want to remove all worker protection laws, then gradually strip us of our rights once the corporations have all the money and then they can use that power to convince us to allow them to rewrite the laws and then enslave us all (being blinded by the benefits that selling yourself to a company provides), it's true I heard it from an army general......

that statement above has as much supporting it as 99% of your statements on here.

please back it up, or use a logical argument, just throwing out illogical unsupported statements and then running, is getting very very old
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:44 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
*THE* doctor?????????????

there is just one now?
Yep, I only spoke with one just as I said previously, but he goes to conferences and speaks with many.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
It may come down to whether we prefer socialism over freedom. I prefer freedom because the government may decide who lives and dies anyway when it gains total control. A doctor friend told me last week that death panels are real.
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:48 PM  
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Originally Posted by samfloor View Post
I can't afford insurance either. And if forced under Obamacare to buy it, I don't know how I will survive.
It may well be part of a plan to force us to depend on the government. Gruber now indicates that cost of insurance will rise with Obamacare.
Quote:
February 12, 2012
Health insurance costs to rise 31% under Obamacare says plan's architect
Rick Moran

"What a shock. Obamacare doesn't lower costs, doesn't increase coverage, and has turned into a wildly unpopular, labyrinthine government overreach." (Rep. Trey Gowdy. R-SC)

The Daily Caller has the story of Obamacare's chief architect admitting defeat, telling states that preiums will rise - even with the subsidy for individual insurance - by 31%.

In 2011, officials in Wisconsin, Minnesota and Colorado ordered reports from Gruber which offer a drastically different portrait in 2012 from the one Obama painted just 17 months ago.

"As a consequence of the Affordable Care Act," the president said in September 2010, "premiums are going to be lower than they would be otherwise; health care costs overall are going to be lower than they would be otherwise."

Gruber's new reports are in direct contrast Obama's words - and with claims Gruber himself made in 2009. Then, the economics professor said that based on figures provided by the independent Congressional Budget Office, "[health care] reform will significantly reduce, not increase, non-group premiums."

During his presentation to Wisconsin officials in August 2011, Gruber revealed that while about 57 percent of those who get their insurance through the individual market will benefit in one way or another from the law's subsides, an even larger majority of the individual market will end up paying drastically more overall.

"After the application of tax subsidies, 59 percent of the individual market will experience an average premium increase of 31 percent," Gruber reported.

The reason for this is that an estimated 40 percent of Wisconsin residents who are covered by individual market insurance don't meet the Affordable Care Act's minimum coverage requirements. Under the Affordable Care Act, they will be required to purchase more expensive plans.

For me, a 31% increase represents about $103 a month extra for health insurance.

I already knew my coverage was deficient. My insurance company informed me last year. The sad fact is, 31% may be lowballing the increase for most. In some states, it may be over 50% increase.

If SCOTUS rules Obamacare is constitutional and it goes into effect in 2014, the backlash is not going to be pretty once people start to discover its true costs - unless congress were to massively increase the subsidies thus causing Obamacare's costs to skyrocket.

Just about every criticism made by Obamacare opponents - every warning, every prediction - is being borne out. It's not much comfort to find oneself being vindicated.

Hat Tip: Ed Lasky

Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...#ixzz1mJAm8TkF
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:58 PM  
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It seems that the fact that "Obamacare" is modeled after Romneys plan in MA has been overlooked. Not many people are complaining about that, not even the people in MA. Health care has been expanded, less visits to emergency rooms, more scheduled visits to physicians office. Yes, there is a fine for not enrolling but based on the MA plan a 35yo male would pay a $1200 fine and less then 1% have been fined. Has it controlled cost? No, it has not. Not yet. That's the next step in MA.
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:47 AM  
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No one can sum it up better than Donald Trump

Let me get this straight . . .
We're going to be "gifted" with a health care
plan we are forced to purchase and
fined if we don't,
Which purportedly covers at least
ten million more people,
without adding a single new doctor,
but provides for 16,000 new IRS agents,
written by a committee whose chairman
says he doesn't understand it,
passed by a Congress that didn't read it but
exempted themselves from it,
and signed by a Dumbo President who smokes,
with funding administered by a treasury chief who
didn't pay his taxes,
for which we'll be taxed for four years before any
benefits take effect,
by a government which has
already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare,
all to be overseen by a surgeon general
who is obese,
and financed by a country that's broke!!!!!
'What the hell could possibly go wrong?'
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