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Old 07-26-2011, 12:53 PM  
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Build it anywhere but in America!

I just can't help but muse that our American companies will go to any length to keep from building something in our own country for the sake of making an extra buck for themselves even at the expense of putting people out of work in this country. Even the place I work at now, whose administrative level employees make top money, while us guys making the product made very little, are talking about having certain parts made in China and getting rid of some of the employees, even though the firm is making a killing on government contracts. It pisses me off.
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Old 07-26-2011, 01:07 PM  
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Unfortunately, much of that is due to production costs, few or no labor laws and no air quality management. It seems people these days no longer have pride at all!



On a footnote, lat year I searched long and hard for a collapsable cooler that would keep my drinks cold for a long time, and would not scratch the boats. I found a company which boasted "American Made" which happened to be local. I gave them a call and they told me to come down. The salesman offered me the opportunity to walk back into their storeroom so I could select a few coolers with perfect colors and shapes. When I went into the back, I was shocked to find every case was printed in Chinese writing, but when you opened it up, the sticker inside said "American Made!" Needless to say, I was pissed, called him and his company a fraud, and walked out.
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Old 07-26-2011, 02:00 PM  
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The fact of the matter is that unless we ALL go out and buy american made (which means the more expensive product) then the production will continue to go overseas.
As long as we shop for the least expensive product, we should not be surprised that the manufacturer seeks out the least expensive production. As long as the cheaper production costs ore over seas then the jobs will be too!
Why is this so difficult for people to understand??

Basically gives us two options:
1) Increase the cost of imports to make American more competitive. Only trouble, is that those countries will do the same with our exports. Thus hurting the businesses here (also workers).
2) Make the cost of production cheaper here in the US. Trouble here, is either people will whine about the big bad companies not being taxed enough or will whine about not enough pay/benefits. Because you know, alot of the expense here is in pay/benefits/taxes etc....

It is easy to say "oh, the fat cat businesses should take their paycuts so we can have cheaper products and better pay...blah blah..." The trouble is, is that we all know that isn't going to happen unless you take it from them... And if you think they are going overseas now?? Wait until you take MORE of their money!
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Old 07-26-2011, 04:15 PM  
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See, I don't buy the production cost hypothisis at all. I put it on pure greed. Here's why, and I've pointed this out before....... In the 1950s a person could get a product at a reasonable price that was very well made and the workers making it got a decent union wage with a pension and medical and so on and the company also made a decent profit. Not a rape killing, but a decent profit. These days, when you look at CEO pay to worker pay, in relation to the stats of the 1950s you see an ever increasing difference in pay between the two ranks. Also, I saw a special on TV about a place that sold comparable American made products that were priced about the same as the comperable Chinese products. The truth of the matter is that corporations in Mexico for instance, can pollute and exploit folks eager for any form of work, all the while, making a rape killing! Also, people buy Chinese made products in this country because in many instances that's all that's offered.
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Old 07-26-2011, 10:29 PM  
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If it would make anybody feel better, us Americans FIRST fell victums to the Japanese, who undercut us and began building autos and producing steel after WWII. (we had bombed them out and rebuilt them with state of the art equipment)Then the Japanese were undercut by the Koreans and then ALL are now being undercut by Chinese. As the old saying goes, what goes around COMES around and the Chinese too, will have their fun in the sun but someone will eventually undermine them too.
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Old 07-26-2011, 10:40 PM  
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umm...insightful comments.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:27 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicinabottle View Post
See, I don't buy the production cost hypothisis at all. I put it on pure greed. Here's why, and I've pointed this out before....... In the 1950s a person could get a product at a reasonable price that was very well made and the workers making it got a decent union wage with a pension and medical and so on and the company also made a decent profit. Not a rape killing, but a decent profit. These days, when you look at CEO pay to worker pay, in relation to the stats of the 1950s you see an ever increasing difference in pay between the two ranks. Also, I saw a special on TV about a place that sold comparable American made products that were priced about the same as the comperable Chinese products. The truth of the matter is that corporations in Mexico for instance, can pollute and exploit folks eager for any form of work, all the while, making a rape killing! Also, people buy Chinese made products in this country because in many instances that's all that's offered.
You are correct that oftentimes Chinese made is all that is offered. It got to be that way because that is what people were buying. I guarantee that if people WANTED to buy only american, many items they could. They would probably have to go to more smaller operations and look hard for the american made stuff. Again, it would likely be way more expensive. If there were more people buying american than Chinese, you would see more american made products at places like Wal Mart.

It is like this, (I will use Wal Mart as a loose example)... Wal mart is a customer just like us americans are. They are merely a middle man selling things that they have purchased elsewhere. They get to chose who they buy from (as do we). When purchasing items, we make a decision as to whether to purchase the more expensive product, or the cheaper product. Often, we purchase the cheaper product. It is no surprise that they do also.

I will tell you something else.... I work in manufacturing, and all the people in our office has a quota to get two "cost savings" per year. Does that make me a bad person for doing my job if I find a cheaper supplier for an item? It is me, (I tell you, I am in one of the lowest office positions here!) not the corporate person making that choice.... Yeah, my boss could tell me to "find more american suppliers" when there are other cheaper ones out there... What do you think his boss would say? Or, maybe HIS boss could say "buy american"... It could go all the way up to... The shareholders???? Do you know who the shareholders might be??? I will let you figure that one out....
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:20 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHood View Post
If it would make anybody feel better, us Americans FIRST fell victums to the Japanese, who undercut us and began building autos and producing steel after WWII. (we had bombed them out and rebuilt them with state of the art equipment)Then the Japanese were undercut by the Koreans and then ALL are now being undercut by Chinese. As the old saying goes, what goes around COMES around and the Chinese too, will have their fun in the sun but someone will eventually undermine them too.
The Japanese situation was different by a long shot. First, they were cheaper, but they also built a much better product as well. I point to the auto industry during the 1970s and 80s when America was building crap and the Japanese were building cars and trucks that went 300,000 miles and beyond.
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:36 PM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
You are correct that oftentimes Chinese made is all that is offered. It got to be that way because that is what people were buying. I guarantee that if people WANTED to buy only american, many items they could. They would probably have to go to more smaller operations and look hard for the american made stuff. Again, it would likely be way more expensive. If there were more people buying american than Chinese, you would see more american made products at places like Wal Mart.

It is like this, (I will use Wal Mart as a loose example)... Wal mart is a customer just like us americans are. They are merely a middle man selling things that they have purchased elsewhere. They get to chose who they buy from (as do we). When purchasing items, we make a decision as to whether to purchase the more expensive product, or the cheaper product. Often, we purchase the cheaper product. It is no surprise that they do also.

I will tell you something else.... I work in manufacturing, and all the people in our office has a quota to get two "cost savings" per year. Does that make me a bad person for doing my job if I find a cheaper supplier for an item? It is me, (I tell you, I am in one of the lowest office positions here!) not the corporate person making that choice.... Yeah, my boss could tell me to "find more american suppliers" when there are other cheaper ones out there... What do you think his boss would say? Or, maybe HIS boss could say "buy american"... It could go all the way up to... The shareholders???? Do you know who the shareholders might be??? I will let you figure that one out....
I understand how it works. You needn't explain. You have it wrong though. Here's how it really works........... Retailers like wallmart, and others, adapt to selling Chinese products not because this is all that Americans will buy, but because wallmart can get the Chinese products for way way way cheaper and sell them for slightly less or for the same as the previously American made products. The store then makes a greater killing as do the stock holders and who gives a damn about the poor American worker? This is how it actually works. Madison Avenue dictates what we buy. I still believe that if you were to put a Chinese product and an American product on a shelf in a wallmart, with the prices being fairly equal, I believe that people would go for the American made product. They did a special on ABC about that. A shop is now selling only American made products for about the same price as the Chinese goods. I'm one of those consumers who DO NOT set foot in wallmart ever! I try as hard as I can to buy American or Japanese made products knowing full well that they're built better and all the while, I'm not supporting a communist government. In my work environment, we build an expensive product that appeals to the extreme wealthy and the government. The product goes for top dollar as it appeals to the wealthy. If our company does in fact begin building certain parts in China, the cost won't go down to the end purchaser. The only person or persons who benifit are the owners of the company and the almighty stockholders. The loosers by a long shot are the workers, born in America, who busted their balls at super low wages to get out a few extra units per shift for those greedy damn business men.
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:19 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicinabottle View Post
I understand how it works. You needn't explain. You have it wrong though. Here's how it really works........... Retailers like wallmart, and others, adapt to selling Chinese products not because this is all that Americans will buy, but because wallmart can get the Chinese products for way way way cheaper and sell them for slightly less or for the same as the previously American made products. The store then makes a greater killing as do the stock holders and who gives a damn about the poor American worker? This is how it actually works. Madison Avenue dictates what we buy. I still believe that if you were to put a Chinese product and an American product on a shelf in a wallmart, with the prices being fairly equal, I believe that people would go for the American made product. They did a special on ABC about that. A shop is now selling only American made products for about the same price as the Chinese goods. I'm one of those consumers who DO NOT set foot in wallmart ever! I try as hard as I can to buy American or Japanese made products knowing full well that they're built better and all the while, I'm not supporting a communist government. In my work environment, we build an expensive product that appeals to the extreme wealthy and the government. The product goes for top dollar as it appeals to the wealthy. If our company does in fact begin building certain parts in China, the cost won't go down to the end purchaser. The only person or persons who benifit are the owners of the company and the almighty stockholders. The loosers by a long shot are the workers, born in America, who busted their balls at super low wages to get out a few extra units per shift for those greedy damn business men.
Several things here.... What you and I said are not very different. What you forget is:
1) Most of us hold shares in businesses in some form or another (retirement, mutual funds, 401k etc...). We have options to place our money where they are managed to perform their best (generate the most money). So there is motivation for the companies that manage our investments to invest in the stocks that perform the best. The stocks that perform the best, are in the companies whose value increases. The companies value increases by being more profitable. And you guessed it, they become more profitable by having the largest profit margin. And what you are talking about is that you think that businesses should sacrifice profit margin for the sake of buying American, right? What do you think would happen?

2)You said something about "prices being fairly equal". Sure, if I had a choice between American and Chinese made, quality was comparable, and the price was the same... I definitely would not choose the Chinese made. Why would I??? Frankly, I would like to see some examples of these comparable quality, made in the US and made in China items sold at similar stores.

Oh, and by the way:


Wikipedia
Business: A business (also known as enterprise or firm) is an organization engaged in the trade of goods, services, or both to consumers.[1] Businesses are predominant in capitalist economies, in which most of them are privately owned and administered to earn profit to increase the wealth of their owners. Businesses may also be not-for-profit or state-owned. A business owned by multiple individuals may be referred to as a company, although that term also has a more precise meaning....


Okay, businesses are created to make a profit. Therefor the more profit it makes, the better the business.
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