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Old 12-08-2010, 06:47 AM  
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Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
Just your support is returning the favor enough - there's too many people nowadays trying to turn the Middle East into another Vietnam. Too many veterans are coming home and not being thanked or encouraged for what they did. I know I'm in the Corps, so I'm not trying to toot my own horn here, but I give my Marines all the encouragement possible - it's a toguh time to be in the military.

Thank you brother!
+1


i see people from evry branch (AF myself). i try to pick out the guys that look like they have had their ass kicked to give em a hand shake or a beer. you wouldnt believe how far just 'thanks' goes. i know i (and most everyone that serves) do it for the country. it sure isnt for the money
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Old 12-19-2010, 09:31 PM  
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This is way too important to get buried!
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Old 01-02-2011, 02:55 PM  
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I figured "pride" was a good tag for this thread
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:11 PM  
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Kids are insolent and lazy. I refused to say under god, in school, and was given quite a bit of flack for it.
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:04 PM  
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Originally Posted by Otahyoni View Post
Sad thing is, people like that may not even care...


+1 for that Mark!
military personnel ARE NOT going to war so that religion can be forced upon our people, maybe we should go back to the original secular pledge instead of religion infused one we go by today, while pretending it was always that way, you know the one before they added "under god"?

these attempts to mix religion with government are just as against the basis our government was founded on. we are not a nation where we require religion but the pledge sure makes it sound that way.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In its original form it read:

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1923, the words, "the Flag of the United States of America" were added. At this time it read:

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

In 1954, in response to the Communist threat of the times, President Eisenhower encouraged Congress to add the words "under God," creating the 31-word pledge we say today. Bellamy's daughter objected to this alteration. Today it reads:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
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Old 01-09-2011, 12:00 AM  
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In 2007, 93% of people supported "In God We Trust" being on our money, as well as being the official motto of the United States

Also in 2007, 87% supported keeping "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegience.

So, yes, you'll always have your whiners.

RedJeep, with all due respect, no one has a right to say what our troops are going over there. Each military member, including myself, has their own reasons for doing what they do. I work with a lot of different Marines of different faiths, that each have their own motivations and things that they do to get through the day. Personally, I go to work every day for my God, my family, and my country, in that order.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:13 AM  
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Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
In 2007, 93% of people supported "In God We Trust" being on our money, as well as being the official motto of the United States

Also in 2007, 87% supported keeping "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegience.

So, yes, you'll always have your whiners.

RedJeep, with all due respect, no one has a right to say what our troops are going over there. Each military member, including myself, has their own reasons for doing what they do. I work with a lot of different Marines of different faiths, that each have their own motivations and things that they do to get through the day. Personally, I go to work every day for my God, my family, and my country, in that order.
where are those statistics from? seriously I would really want to know how impartial and well informed these people were? did these people even know it originaly did not have that?

and even if they did so what? I wouldn't be surprised if 70% of the citizens wanted america to become a chrisitan theocracy, but should we? like it or not a secular government is the way to go, our founding fathers knew this and built this country on that principle.

Soldiers are fighting for our freedoms, that includes FREEDOM OF RELIGION, and forcing people to believe in a god is religion and is against the whole ideas of what this country was founded on.

Yes everyone has their own motivations but there is a difference between what an individual does and what the government can do, and using our public school system to push religion is not what should be happening in a secular (non religious based) nation
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Old 01-09-2011, 01:10 PM  
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Well, the cartoon really isn't inferring anything about religion at all.

I'd definitely argue about our forefathers' vision for the United States, but neither of us know, it'd take forever, and that's a whole different thread.
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Old 01-09-2011, 02:18 PM  
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Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
Well, the cartoon really isn't inferring anything about religion at all.

I'd definitely argue about our forefathers' vision for the United States, but neither of us know, it'd take forever, and that's a whole different thread.
1.) I am still waiting on your source for those statistics
2.) the cartoon implies the only reason the kid is not saying it is laziness, hence the feet up on the desk, no one supports not saying it out of laziness, the ONLY issue the majority of people who have an issue with the pledge is ONLY because of the words "under god", so yes that is what the cartoon is about.
3.) yes, I'm sure having a theocracy based around religion was why our constitution put so many of the things in there that had to be included because the founders just "forgot" to require the words "under god" in our pledge and in "in god we trust" on our money, sure....... The founding fathers made it prefectly clear this was a secular nation and NOT a theocracy, it's not even debatable, that is the principle of what our country was founded on, FREEDOM.

Quote:
The U.S. Constitution

The United States Constitution serves as the law of the land for America and indicates the intent of our Founding Fathers. The Constitution forms a secular document, and nowhere does it appeal to God, Christianity, Jesus, or any supreme being. (For those who think the date of the Constitution contradicts the last sentence, see note 1 at the end.) The U.S. government derives from people (not God), as it clearly states in the preamble: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect Union...." The omission of God in the Constitution did not come out of forgetfulness, but rather out of the Founding Fathers purposeful intentions to keep government separate from religion.

Although the Constitution does not include the phrase "Separation of Church & State," neither does it say "Freedom of religion." However, the Constitution implies both in the 1st Amendment. As to our freedoms, the 1st Amendment provides exclusionary wording:

Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Thomas Jefferson made an interpretation of the 1st Amendment to his January 1st, 1802 letter to the Committee of the Danbury Baptist Association calling it a "wall of separation between church and State." Madison had also written that "Strongly guarded. . . is the separation between religion and government in the Constitution of the United States." There existed little controversy about this interpretation from our Founding Fathers.

If religionists better understood the concept of separation of Church & State, they would realize that the wall of separation actually protects their religion. Our secular government allows the free expression of religion and non-religion. Today, religions flourish in America; we have more churches than Seven-Elevens.

Although many secular and atheist groups today support and fight for the wall of separation, this does not mean that they wish to lawfully eliminate religion from society. On the contrary, you will find no secular or atheist group attempting to ban Christianity, or any other religion from American society. Keeping religion separate allows atheists and religionists alike, to practice their belief systems, regardless how ridiculous they may seem, without government intervention.
http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm

you don't think requiring kids to say they pledge allegiance to a country under god enforces religious beliefs? seriously?

Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
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Old 01-09-2011, 02:52 PM  
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I personally believe the cartoon represents the lack of allegience rather the "under God" verbiage, but could be wrong on the true meaning. Having several family members who are Jehovah Witnesses, they do the same when it comes to the American Flag, and everytime they attempt to convert me, there is an all out argument. I usually tell them that if they don't like what the USA stands for, make sure the door doesn't hit them in the butt as they leave for some other country, preferably a Communist country.

Yep, I'm proud of this country. I fly the American flag daily. And when I die, there will be a flag covering my coffin.
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