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Old 04-02-2013, 09:08 AM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
The way I see it, if you can't get by on your own merits in a free-market society, you're going to be taking from those who can. You're "economically worthless".

We have a few options for dealing with "worthless" people.

* We could enslave them. Not morally or ethically justifiable.

* We could kill them. Not morally or ethically justifiable.

* We could put them in prison. Probably the most expensive method available. Now we have to pay someone a subsistence wage to supervise them, as well as pay for their food, shelter, basic medical expenses, etc. We decrease their employability, making them more worthless.

* We could leave them alone, let them figure out how to survive. On the books, we don't pay a thing. But, these folks are going to take what they need from somewhere, so we're paying for everything they steal. When they take $50 worth of copper from a vacant house, it costs one of us $1500 to repair, but they get to eat for a few days.

* We could directly subsidize them. Give them money/housing/phones, let them go about their business.

* We could put them to work. From each according to his ability; to each according to need.

* We could evaluate on a case-by-case basis, and offer a wide variety of programs for a wide variety of problems. Offer support services to get people back to work. Education. Secure Housing. Daycare. Interviewing skills. Offer increased direct subsidies to those increasing their employability. Make these people less worthless.

Did I miss any?
The problem is with this list, everything written is designed for "us" to take care of "them." I have no problem if this would work, but they don't want to work to begin with. We have a society who no longer wants to learn how to learn anything (i.e. catch fish syndrome), and would just rather rely on local, county, state and government assistance. Furthermore, the system is so broken that they actually earn more money sitting on their butts, than by being productive in society. This in itself confirms how badly the system is broken.

As it is right now, you receive more money for every child you claim as a dependant. IMHO, this is backwards. It should be set up so that the more kids you produce, the less you receive.

I understand I am not adding anything new, but stating the fact that there is no quick fix for this.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:44 AM  
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Is drug abuse a problem that stand alone or the secondary affects of a greater issue?
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:52 PM  
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Originally Posted by havasu View Post
Furthermore, the system is so broken that they actually earn more money sitting on their butts, than by being productive in society. This in itself confirms how badly the system is broken.

As it is right now, you receive more money for every child you claim as a dependant. IMHO, this is backwards. It should be set up so that the more kids you produce, the less you receive.
Careful, someone is going to say the first part there is an argument in favor of increasing the minimum wage... Of course, I think the entitlement is too high, not minimum wage being too low....

And I definitely agree that there should be ABSOLUTELY NO INCINTIVE TO HAVE MORE KIDS!!!! if anything, we need to deincentivise (is that a word??) having more kids if you cannot support yourself.. We are approaching my "unpopular" solution by the way....
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:11 PM  
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Well first we set an age limit like on "Logan's Run". What would it be, 50, 40, no 30 worked for them. Then we eliminate all the infirmed, mental and physical. Then we sterilize everyone when they are born. Problem solved. In about 50 years, all those troublesome humans are gone from this planet.
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:10 AM  
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Originally Posted by samfloor View Post
Well first we set an age limit like on "Logan's Run". What would it be, 50, 40, no 30 worked for them. Then we eliminate all the infirmed, mental and physical. Then we sterilize everyone when they are born. Problem solved. In about 50 years, all those troublesome humans are gone from this planet.
Okay, so just come out and say it... You think that incentives for having children when someone cannot support themselves is a good idea. Do you think that is a solution? Has it worked out yet? Or has it made things worse?

Let's hear some suggestions other than tax tax tax spend spend spend.... That has yet to work.

Never seen Logan's run by the way... I have heard of it..
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Old 04-03-2013, 06:41 AM  
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Originally Posted by havasu View Post
The problem is with this list, everything written is designed for "us" to take care of "them."
Re-read the first four items.

Quote:

I have no problem if this would work, but they don't want to work to begin with. We have a society who no longer wants to learn how to learn anything (i.e. catch fish syndrome), and would just rather rely on local, county, state and government assistance. Furthermore, the system is so broken that they actually earn more money sitting on their butts, than by being productive in society. This in itself confirms how badly the system is broken.

As it is right now, you receive more money for every child you claim as a dependant. IMHO, this is backwards. It should be set up so that the more kids you produce, the less you receive.

I understand I am not adding anything new, but stating the fact that there is no quick fix for this.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:09 AM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
Okay, so just come out and say it... You think that incentives for having children when someone cannot support themselves is a good idea.
You seem to be advocating #4 - leave them to their own devices. Also, a semi-passive form of #2. All eugenics programs will fit into #2, #4, or both.

Quote:

Do you think that is a solution? Has it worked out yet? Or has it made things worse?

Let's hear some suggestions other than tax tax tax spend spend spend.... That has yet to work.

Never seen Logan's run by the way... I have heard of it..
We're talking about people who have demonstrated an inability to survive on their own, legal efforts. These are people who will be utilizing illegal methods to continue their survival unless someone intervenes. The only options for dealing with the problem that don't include significant taxation are 1, 2, and 4 - enslave, kill, and ignore. Which one should we choose?
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:24 AM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
You seem to be advocating #4 - leave them to their own devices. Also, a semi-passive form of #2. All eugenics programs will fit into #2, #4, or both.



We're talking about people who have demonstrated an inability to survive on their own, legal efforts. These are people who will be utilizing illegal methods to continue their survival unless someone intervenes. The only options for dealing with the problem that don't include significant taxation are 1, 2, and 4 - enslave, kill, and ignore. Which one should we choose?


I don't believe we should FORCE anyone to do anything. However, I think it is prudent to having conditions to handouts. One of which, would be to NOT CREATE DEPENDANTS WHEN ONE IS A DEPENDANT THEMSELVES.

Some folks on here are rephrasing it to make it sound like some sort of genocide behavior. Ridiculous. This is exactly why this country is doomed to fall by the way of other nations past...

If we continue to ENCOURAGE reproduction when it is financially ill advised for the individual who exactly are we benefitting? (except of course, the politicians that buy vo........... Er, give out these entitlements...)
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:48 PM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post


I don't believe we should FORCE anyone to do anything. However, I think it is prudent to having conditions to handouts. One of which, would be to NOT CREATE DEPENDANTS WHEN ONE IS A DEPENDANT THEMSELVES.

Some folks on here are rephrasing it to make it sound like some sort of genocide behavior. Ridiculous. This is exactly why this country is doomed to fall by the way of other nations past...

If we continue to ENCOURAGE reproduction when it is financially ill advised for the individual who exactly are we benefitting? (except of course, the politicians that buy vo........... Er, give out these entitlements...)
so what is your proposed solution? forced taking of the children? let them starve if the mother can't provide? what is your utopian strategy to solve this issue?
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:28 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
so what is your proposed solution? forced taking of the children? let them starve if the mother can't provide? what is your utopian strategy to solve this issue?
I think they are proposing forced sterilization.
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