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Old 10-12-2015, 07:43 PM  
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Some facts for your reading pleasure.


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Old 10-12-2015, 08:57 PM  
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Originally Posted by leadarrows View Post
The largest demographic in first time gun purchases is women.
You don't like guns.....I get it so why bother knowing the truth about the subject...
I have guns myself Lead. I totally respect sensible law abiding gun owners. I just think that some people are a bit screwy is all. I have a friend who has a heart of gold. He gave me a very nice AK 47 to add to my collection of other military weapons....here awhile back. Love this guy! But he goes around with this attitude of "Man, I wish someone would mess with me so I could kill them. Wrong attitude!

I don't believe gun control is the answer, even though I'm a liberal. I believe that even if every person was armed, you'd still have mass shootings, it's just that the people doing them would be much more cunning.

Here's some examples.....


Lakewood, Washington police officer shooting


Location
Parkland, Washington,
United States

Date
November 29, 2009
8:15 a.m. (UTC-8)


Attack type
Ambush shooting

Weapons
Glock 17 semiautomatic pistol

Deaths
4

Perpetrator
Maurice Clemmons

On Sunday, November 29, 2009, four Lakewood, Washington police officers were murdered at the former Forza Coffee Co. coffee shop, which was located at 11401 Steele Street South in the Parkland unincorporated area of Pierce County, Washington. One gunman, later identified as Maurice Clemmons, entered the coffee shop, fired at the officers as they sat working on their laptop computers preparing for their shifts, and then fled the scene.[1][2] After a two-day manhunt that spanned several cities in the Puget Sound region, the gunman was shot and killed by a Seattle Police Department officer in south Seattle after refusing orders to stop.[3]

The shooting is believed to have been a targeted attack against police officers, and came less than a month after the murder of Seattle police officer Timothy Brenton under similar circumstances nearly 40 miles (64 km) to the north. Another shooting involving Pierce County sheriff's deputies occurred three weeks after in Eatonville, on December 21, when two deputies were shot and critically injured (one later died from his injuries) by a man, who was then shot dead.[4] It is believed to be the most deadly attack on law enforcement in the state of Washington, and the deadliest attack on law enforcement in the United States since the March 21, 2009 shootings that left four Oakland, California police officers dead.[5] The four were the first Lakewood police officers to be killed in the line of duty since the department's establishment in 2004.

Although the gunman was killed by police, six other people were charged in connection with the murders. All six are friends and family of Clemmons who aided him in escaping the scene and eluding capture. One was convicted in June 2010 and was sentenced to five years' imprisonment. In December 2010, three of four accused suspects were found guilty of rendering criminal assistance.[6]

In May 2011, Darcus Allen, the getaway driver and remaining suspect, was convicted of four counts of murder and sentenced to 420 years in prison the following month.[7]

Immediately following the shootings, the Lakewood Police Independent Guild set up a memorial fund for the officers. As of 2012, about $3.2 million were donated to the fund. In March 2012, Lakewood police Officer Skeeter Timothy Manos pled guilty to using the account set up for donations as "his own personal piggy bank


Beltway sniper attacks



Locations of the fifteen sniper attacks in the D.C. area numbered chronologically.
Locations of the fifteen sniper attacks in the D.C. area numbered chronologically.


Location
Maryland, Virginia, and Washington, D.C.

Date
October 2, 2002 –
October 22, 2002 (Eastern Time Zone)

Target
Civilians


Attack type
Spree killing

Weapons
Bushmaster XM-15 rifle

Deaths

17 total:
10 in the Beltway sniper attacks
7 in preliminary shootings



Non-fatal injuries

10 total:
3 in the Beltway sniper attacks
7 in preliminary shootings


Assailants
John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo

The Beltway sniper attacks were a series of coordinated shootings that took place over three weeks in October 2002 in Maryland, Virginia, and Washington, D.C. Ten people were killed and three other victims were critically injured in several locations throughout the Washington, D.C., metropolitan area and along Interstate 95 in Virginia. The rampage was perpetrated by John Allen Muhammad (then aged 42) and Lee Boyd Malvo (then 17), driving a blue 1990 Chevrolet Caprice sedan. Their crime spree began in February 2002 with murders and robberies in the states of Alabama, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Texas, and Washington, which resulted in seven deaths and seven injuries, bringing the total victim count to 17 deaths and 10 injuries.[1]

In September 2003, Muhammad was sentenced to death. One month later, Malvo was sentenced to six consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole. On November 10, 2009, Muhammad was executed by lethal injection at the Greensville Correctional Center near Jarratt, Virginia.



Charles Whitman



Charles Whitman (1963).jpg
Charles Whitman in 1963


Born
June 24, 1941
Lake Worth, Florida, U.S.

Died
August 1, 1966 (aged 25)
Austin, Texas, U.S.

Cause of death
Multiple shotgun wounds
(ruled as justifiable homicide)

Other names
The Texas Tower Sniper

Occupation
Former U.S. Marine
Engineering student

Spouse(s)
Kathy Leissner (m. 1962–66)

Parent(s)
Charles Adolphus "C. A." Whitman, Jr.
Margaret Whitman


Killings


Date
August 1, 1966
Family: c. 12:15 a.m. – 3:00 a.m.
Random: 11:48 a.m. – 1:24 p.m.

Location(s)
University of Texas at Austin, Texas

Target(s)
Family, students, teachers and police

Killed
16

Injured
32 (including 1 later fatality)

Weapons
Remington 700 ADL (6mm)
Universal M1 carbine
Remington Model 141 (.35-caliber)
Sears model 60 Semi-automatic shotgun (12 gauge)
S&W Model 19 (.357 Magnum)
Luger P08 (9mm)
Galesi-Brescia (.25 ACP)


Charles Joseph Whitman (June 24, 1941 – August 1, 1966) was an American engineering student at the University of Texas, former U.S. Marine, and a mass murderer who killed 16 people.

In the early morning hours of August 1, 1966, Whitman murdered his wife and mother in their homes. Later that day, he brought a number of guns, including rifles, a shotgun, and handguns, to the campus of the University of Texas at Austin where, over an approximate 90 to 95 minute period, he killed 14 people and wounded 32 others in a mass shooting in and around the Tower. Whitman shot and killed three people inside the university's tower and eleven others after firing at random from the 28th-floor observation deck of the Main Building. Whitman was shot and killed by Austin police officer Houston McCoy.[1][2][3][4] Just prior to Whitman’s clock tower massacre, Richard Speck, labeled America's “first mass murderer,” killed eight student nurses in July 1966. The killings represented an unexpected type of urban terror.[5]

I believe that even if everyone was armed, you'd just see a change in tactics.
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Old 10-12-2015, 09:05 PM  
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I also think it's a shame that everyone has to go around with weapons strapped to themselves. It's a comment about what we've become as a society. Frankly, I get a bit nervous when I see someone come walking into a restaurant or other public establishment packing heat because, hey! let's face it, you just don't know about people anymore, and I happen to not pack whatsoever, however, I have entertained the thought and have had a discussion with my spouse about it.
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Old 10-12-2015, 10:38 PM  
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I have never heard of an instance of a licensed open carry individual committing a crime of any kind let alone commenting a mass shooting.
I always feel safer around them. I see no difference being around a person with or without a gun on their person. The ones that scare me have their gun on ready and are shooting people.
Guns are inanimate objects. Tools for use good and bad.....people need work guns or no guns, After all people were killing one another long before we had guns.

Blaming guns is a distraction...a waste of time.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:56 PM  
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I think that you're not fully understanding my position. I agree with you. People will use explosives, vehicles, what have you to kill. Usually, it's the lunatics that use the guns to kill in mass shootings, and they typically will plan out their attacks carefully and therein lies the problem. I just think that the expanded background checks should be at least considered. It angers me when the gun lobby, the gun industry and so on, aren't held accountable by law (They are totally immune to lawsuits for instance) even the NRA won't take a responsible outlook on a growing problem. Their answer is to arm to the teeth, every man woman and child and I think a bit of moderation wouldn't be a bad thing. I sort of laugh when I see people griping about the government coming to take their guns. Look at the amount of guns in this country. Look at the amount of fully automatic weapons in this country. Look at how powerful the NRA and the gun lobby is. There's no way in hell, that anyone is coming for your guns. You talk about moderation below........ The gun control advocates, though slightly dizzy on a case by case bases, are more moderate than some of these (pardon me for saying it, because there's plenty of them in my state and especially my area) redneck idiots that act as though guns are better than sex! It's laughable.
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Old 10-13-2015, 09:10 PM  
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Those who want to take our guns will use any advance towards any gun control as a step towards confiscation. There is no such thing as moderation to these people.
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Old 10-13-2015, 10:54 PM  
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Originally Posted by leadarrows View Post
Those who want to take our guns will use any advance towards any gun control as a step towards confiscation. There is no such thing as moderation to these people.
So you think that having advanced background checks or any form of sensible gun laws is a step toward confiscation? Don't you think that some restraint is needed? I mean, where do we draw the line? If we allowed people to own grenade launchers (I'm going to the extreme here, bear with me) and someone with evil intentions got a hold of one, think of the carnage. What if some whacko got his hands on a fully automatic weapon that shot 100 mm rounds. Whew! I don't know about you Lead, but I don't see any reason why a person needs something as sinister as a fully automatic weapon, and I'm glad at the very least that not everyone can obtain a fully automatic machine gun. I do believe as a responsible gun owner, that there needs to be some guidelines. But that's just me.

By the way, I learned tonight that they made a gun shop owner responsible for selling a weapon to a minor who used that weapon to shoot 2 cops. I think this is a great move! We need more actions like this.
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:12 AM  
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Yes repeal the gun control act of 1934 and the one of 1968.
No one is responsible for another person actions. We are miles apart on this.

We need full autos to stand against our own government which is what the 2nd amendment is actually about. Not hunting and self defense.
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Old 10-14-2015, 01:12 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicinabottle View Post
I also think it's a shame that everyone has to go around with weapons strapped to themselves. It's a comment about what we've become as a society. Frankly, I get a bit nervous when I see someone come walking into a restaurant or other public establishment packing heat because, hey! let's face it, you just don't know about people anymore, and I happen to not pack whatsoever, however, I have entertained the thought and have had a discussion with my spouse about it.
Nobody "has" to carry a weapon. It is simply a right guaranteed law abiding citizens by our Constitution. Criminals don't obey gun laws. Gun laws cause law abiding citizens to be vulnerable to attack because criminals know they will be unable to defend themselves. Put a sign up outside your home that says "I don't like guns and I don't have one" and see how that works our for you.

Even if you don't have one, and most American adults do have at least one, the threat to the criminal posed by the possibility gives them pause.
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Old 10-14-2015, 09:46 PM  
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Originally Posted by leadarrows View Post
Yes repeal the gun control act of 1934 and the one of 1968.
No one is responsible for another person actions. We are miles apart on this.

We need full autos to stand against our own government which is what the 2nd amendment is actually about. Not hunting and self defense.
I think each person in America should have a nuclear missle to be sure that the government stays in line with their religious rights belief system. No disrespecting, but I trust our government a hell of a lot more than I would a gun fanatic. But that's just me. You act as if the government is some sort of outside force like North Korea. Our government, while not perfect, are people just like you and I, put there to govern by people like you and I. Isn't there enough war around the world without wanting to start another? We need less John McCains in the world, and more Hillary Clintons!
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