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Old 12-14-2012, 09:27 AM  
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Originally Posted by VaporLung View Post
I think those prerequisites are pretty spot on, but there are many variables that come into play as well. Your environment pays a huge role IMO. You have heard the old saying(s) 'Its hard to soar with the eagles when you are surrounded by a bunch of turkeys'

The company you keep plays a HUGE role in your level of success.

My family is a classic example - most of them have been 'poor' for several generations. Why? They obviously missed one or two of those bullet points, HOWEVER, even some of those who nailed them spot are are still 'in the poor house'. Why?

Because they still surround themselves with the d-bags that are 'poor' and moreso - poor decision makers. You marry a d-bag spouse? - chances are you will be poor. You choose to stick around your d-bag family? - Chances are you will be poor. The common denominator - same bad decision making folk and misery loves company. I think my dad put it best - "They will drag you down to their level much more quickly than you will will be able to bring them to yours"

I say this from firsthand experience, as I have pretty much hit all of the prereq's.
I graduated from HS, dont exibit criminal behaviors, married for a LONG time (with a kid) and have been gainfully employed.

The difference is - I moved far far away from MY d-bag situation.
I married (successful) a woman who (at times can be a royal pain) but she is straight as an arrow and knows what she wants and how to get it.

Oh yeah, and I also learned a long time ago that you have to 'play the game' to a certain extent. Sure being pissed off at this and that and wanting to be 'a rebel' (in some facet) is totally acceptable, but wearing long hair or outrageous crap that will draw (sometimes unwanted) attention to yourself will shoot you in the foot more often than not.
I actually had to learn this the hard way. Very true and good post.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:39 AM  
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Greenville, SC
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Originally Posted by VaporLung View Post
I think those prerequisites are pretty spot on, but there are many variables that come into play as well. Your environment pays a huge role IMO. You have heard the old saying(s) 'Its hard to soar with the eagles when you are surrounded by a bunch of turkeys'

The company you keep plays a HUGE role in your level of success.

My family is a classic example - most of them have been 'poor' for several generations. Why? They obviously missed one or two of those bullet points, HOWEVER, even some of those who nailed them spot are are still 'in the poor house'. Why?

Because they still surround themselves with the d-bags that are 'poor' and moreso - poor decision makers. You marry a d-bag spouse? - chances are you will be poor. You choose to stick around your d-bag family? - Chances are you will be poor. The common denominator - same bad decision making folk and misery loves company. I think my dad put it best - "They will drag you down to their level much more quickly than you will will be able to bring them to yours"

I say this from firsthand experience, as I have pretty much hit all of the prereq's.
I graduated from HS, dont exibit criminal behaviors, married for a LONG time (with a kid) and have been gainfully employed.

The difference is - I moved far far away from MY d-bag situation.
I married (successful) a woman who (at times can be a royal pain) but she is straight as an arrow and knows what she wants and how to get it.

Oh yeah, and I also learned a long time ago that you have to 'play the game' to a certain extent. Sure being pissed off at this and that and wanting to be 'a rebel' (in some facet) is totally acceptable, but wearing long hair or outrageous crap that will draw (sometimes unwanted) attention to yourself will shoot you in the foot more often than not.
I do agree.... I too had some friends that were not the best of examples... Funny thing is that those same friends called me "cheap" in HS but who do you think they called to bail them out of jail a few years later?? HAHA...
I will definitely agree that the folks you grow up around will influence the DECISIONS YOU MAKE... All I am saying is that those decisions often determine how things turn out. I don't know how anyone can argue with that.

Oh, and I was a long hired "rebel" once upon a time..... Oh, how things change!
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:30 AM  
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I've done the "clunker" route. I subscribed to that philosophy in my youth. I also voted GOP back then, but that's not important right now.

I drive a lot. 30k to 50k miles per year. I started doing this about 6 years ago. Over the past 6 years, I've spent a total of ~$8,000 purchasing a total of 4 vehicles, and nearly $20,000 over that time period just repairing them, not to mention the extra gas burned from these older, inefficient vehicles. Every time one of them broke down, the question I had to ask is "Do I repair this problem, or replace this vehicle?"

Do you know how many times I had to call AAA to have a vehicle towed home? Do you know how much work I lost because of unreliable vehicles? Do you know the professional reputation I earned from missing so much work? Do you know how much income I've lost due to that lost work and the poor reputation my vehicles earned me? Do you know how much time I spent as a shadetree mechanic instead of practicing my trade? Do you know how much these repairs have disrupted my cashflow and how far I've been forced to dip into my savings to cover them?



Last spring, I purchased my first new vehicle. I'll have its $25k price tag paid off in two years. I expect to put 30k to 50k per year on it for 6 years (180k to 300k) and give/sell it to my eldest when he turns 16. I'm likely to spend about $3000 in maintenance and repairs over that 6-year period. At that point, it will be a decent, $2000-$4000 vehicle that will be reliable enough to get around town for several years.




When you guys start telling me about your $600 trucks and you say that anyone who takes on a car payment is foolish, well, I've been there, done that, and you're either deluding yourselves, you have a large fleet of vehicles to fall back on when one goes down, you have a job that does not require absolutely reliable transportation, or some combination of the above. I'd have a $600 vehicle destroyed in under 2 months, just driving it into the ground.

Over the past 6 years, I spent about $28k and turned it all into rusted hulks I had to dispose of.

In the next 6 years, I will spend about $28k and I'll have a $2000-$4000 asset at the end.

You tell me which route is smarter.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:46 AM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
I've done the "clunker" route. I subscribed to that philosophy in my youth. I also voted GOP back then, but that's not important right now.

I drive a lot. 30k to 50k miles per year. I started doing this about 6 years ago. Over the past 6 years, I've spent a total of ~$8,000 purchasing a total of 4 vehicles, and nearly $20,000 over that time period just repairing them, not to mention the extra gas burned from these older, inefficient vehicles. Every time one of them broke down, the question I had to ask is "Do I repair this problem, or replace this vehicle?"

Do you know how many times I had to call AAA to have a vehicle towed home? Do you know how much work I lost because of unreliable vehicles? Do you know the professional reputation I earned from missing so much work? Do you know how much income I've lost due to that lost work and the poor reputation my vehicles earned me? Do you know how much time I spent as a shadetree mechanic instead of practicing my trade? Do you know how much these repairs have disrupted my cashflow and how far I've been forced to dip into my savings to cover them?



Last spring, I purchased my first new vehicle. I'll have its $25k price tag paid off in two years. I expect to put 30k to 50k per year on it for 6 years (180k to 300k) and give/sell it to my eldest when he turns 16. I'm likely to spend about $3000 in maintenance and repairs over that 6-year period. At that point, it will be a decent, $2000-$4000 vehicle that will be reliable enough to get around town for several years.




When you guys start telling me about your $600 trucks and you say that anyone who takes on a car payment is foolish, well, I've been there, done that, and you're either deluding yourselves, you have a large fleet of vehicles to fall back on when one goes down, you have a job that does not require absolutely reliable transportation, or some combination of the above. I'd have a $600 vehicle destroyed in under 2 months, just driving it into the ground.

Over the past 6 years, I spent about $28k and turned it all into rusted hulks I had to dispose of.

In the next 6 years, I will spend about $28k and I'll have a $2000-$4000 asset at the end.

You tell me which route is smarter.
All I can go by is my experience.... The vehicle I drive right now? A 1996 Toyota Tacoma 4x4 extended cab. Bought it about 10 years ago (for $3500)_.... It had 200k on it then. Now it has about 315k miles on it. The only problem with what you said is about a cheap car PLUS a job that requires alot of driving etc.... Now, the cheap car is an answer to needing a car while earning minimum wage.. So, if someone has a job with alot of driving chances are it is more than minimum wage (or it will help cover vehicle costs). If it is minimum wage that requires alot of driving but doesn't help with vehicle costs then another job should be chosen.

As far as the "car payment" stuff.... You can get a non clunker car for $5k-8k. I know, everybody doesn't have that much "cash"... Hey, I think we are just giving suggestions that have worked for us and others... Will they work for everyone? Maybe not....

I will also admit, if someone doesn't even know how to change their oil, then yeah, an older car is probably not for you. If you have to take it to a shop for every little thing then it very well may be a moneypit. (Oh, as far as my truck I haven't had to do much of anything. New clutch and exhaust manifold when I bought it and replaced a rear axle seal a few years ago.... Oh, and valve cover gasket!)

All of that being said..... I still stand by what I believe which is that MOST (not all) people's financial situation as adults can be attributed to life choices that they made. Everyone who is broke isn't just a "victim" of their circumstance.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:13 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
I still stand by what I believe which is that MOST (not all) people's financial situation as adults can be attributed to life choices that they made. Everyone who is broke isn't just a "victim" of their circumstance.
I do agree with you. And here's the caveat: In our society and economy, it is incredibly easy to make a few simple mistakes that have devastating, even irrevocable consequences, even if the individual learns from them and would never make the same mistake in the future. The poor person, barely eking out a living, is worth less to the economy than a person who learned his lesson and was helped to dig himself out of the mistakes he had made in the past.

Mistakes *will* be made. The question is what happens after that. Are these people to be deemed irredeemable, or are they to be given the opportunity to learn from their mistakes? We certainly allow the rich to do it. There's something fishy about a guy who can declare bankruptcy and discharge most of his debts one year and have a 6-figure salary the following year, but things like that happen all the time.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:25 PM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
I do agree with you. And here's the caveat: In our society and economy, it is incredibly easy to make a few simple mistakes that have devastating, even irrevocable consequences, even if the individual learns from them and would never make the same mistake in the future. The poor person, barely eking out a living, is worth less to the economy than a person who learned his lesson and was helped to dig himself out of the mistakes he had made in the past.

Mistakes *will* be made. The question is what happens after that. Are these people to be deemed irredeemable, or are they to be given the opportunity to learn from their mistakes? We certainly allow the rich to do it. There's something fishy about a guy who can declare bankruptcy and discharge most of his debts one year and have a 6-figure salary the following year, but things like that happen all the time.
I agree that nobody is perfect. I have made MANY mistakes. I also believe there are many people out there who continue to make the same mistakes for whatever reason. Sometimes it is because the repercussions have been softened by the government... Sometimes it is because they just don't want to do more.... And yes, perhaps sometimes they are still suffering the results of a single mistake....

I just feel that this country has been great because someone can start out with nothing and build up and be very successful. It is a double edged sword though..... If one person can work hard and take some chances perhaps then at the same time, someone can screw up and be UNsuccessful! It's just the way it works.

This reminds me of some of the things I see at my job (which is manufacturing).
You can have the same production line with the same equipment and two different shifts have two different results.... The production department (who is responsible for the operators of the equipment) is always coming to the process department (responsible for training and maintaining the production process) and complaining about the performance of the production line!
It's almost the same thing. If the operators aren't held accountable then some of them will not perform as well as others. They have different priorities... Okay, starting to wander now... Sorry about that!
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Old 12-14-2012, 06:45 PM  
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I bought a 1977 C 65 Chevy dump truck in 1997 to date that truck has made me over 700 thousand dollars and is why I could buy my grandparents farm. I can work on it when it breaks down with out owning thousands of dollars worth of testing equipment.

If I won the lottery tomorrow I would just restore my old trucks. You can pay 35 k for a truck that will not be worth any more than mine in 10 years all you want. New trucks are worth about 5 k not 35...50 k ...it's a joke. You need to get from point A to point B...period. The rest is all ego.....men should know how to fix their own stuff. I never call anyone to fix anything.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:27 AM  
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Originally Posted by samfloor View Post
That guy is an idiot. Very few minimum wage jobs come with health insurance. One illness will wipe out all of a family's money. What if they have a handicapped child? Not everyone can escape poverty. If both work, what about children and paying for child care. Child care, for one child, will cost more than one person's income on minimum wage.
If you are working a minimum wage job why are you having kids?

Minimum wage is not meant to rasie a family on. It is ment for you earn money while living at home. You shouldn't be earnign minimum wage after high school.

Every single person in this country can escape poverty IF THEY WANT TO.

Just like yesterday I was out driving and seen a guy begging for money on the street corner. He had newer shoes than me on and while, i'm sitting there in my almost 9 year old car. He pulls out a pack of Newport cigs ($5 a pack) in that area. Now I am sorry $5 * 2 packs a day is roughly $300 a month. That is a partial rent payment. If you get a lower cost appartment and you get room mates and split the rent and utilities you will have more money. $100 says that BUM also drinks a bottle of booze a day as well.

I was very poor at one time. You know there is one thing that is always open to just about everyone in this country unles you are a felon. The US Military is always accepting applications. It starts with low pay but it comes with FREE 100% health and dental coverage for you and your family. They will match you up with jobs that are suited to you. They will even give you house.

What happened to having a work ethic? I mean really? Maybe insted of spending $200 on that fancy iphone and $900 a month on a fancy car you should get the free phone the lowest cell phone plan and a cheaper car. save some money.

Most jobs are 8 hours a day 5 days a week. Guess what when I was poor I worked 18 hours a day 6 days a week and the 7th day I worked 8 to 10 hours. I drove a 35 year old truck that ran and I took care of it. I lived in a cheap appartment with not AC or heat. We had a $10 fan and an old electrict heater that my parents gave me.

If you're poor get off your ass and change it. End of story.

Oh and if you want to get an education fine. There are grants, loans and scholarships. There is even more free money if you are a minority, female, or a single parent. Oh sorry you have to work to get that too.

NOTHING IN LIFE IS EFFING FREE.....
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:37 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
I've done the "clunker" route. I subscribed to that philosophy in my youth. I also voted GOP back then, but that's not important right now.

I drive a lot. 30k to 50k miles per year. I started doing this about 6 years ago. Over the past 6 years, I've spent a total of ~$8,000 purchasing a total of 4 vehicles, and nearly $20,000 over that time period just repairing them, not to mention the extra gas burned from these older, inefficient vehicles. Every time one of them broke down, the question I had to ask is "Do I repair this problem, or replace this vehicle?"

Do you know how many times I had to call AAA to have a vehicle towed home? Do you know how much work I lost because of unreliable vehicles? Do you know the professional reputation I earned from missing so much work? Do you know how much income I've lost due to that lost work and the poor reputation my vehicles earned me? Do you know how much time I spent as a shadetree mechanic instead of practicing my trade? Do you know how much these repairs have disrupted my cashflow and how far I've been forced to dip into my savings to cover them?



Last spring, I purchased my first new vehicle. I'll have its $25k price tag paid off in two years. I expect to put 30k to 50k per year on it for 6 years (180k to 300k) and give/sell it to my eldest when he turns 16. I'm likely to spend about $3000 in maintenance and repairs over that 6-year period. At that point, it will be a decent, $2000-$4000 vehicle that will be reliable enough to get around town for several years.




When you guys start telling me about your $600 trucks and you say that anyone who takes on a car payment is foolish, well, I've been there, done that, and you're either deluding yourselves, you have a large fleet of vehicles to fall back on when one goes down, you have a job that does not require absolutely reliable transportation, or some combination of the above. I'd have a $600 vehicle destroyed in under 2 months, just driving it into the ground.

Over the past 6 years, I spent about $28k and turned it all into rusted hulks I had to dispose of.

In the next 6 years, I will spend about $28k and I'll have a $2000-$4000 asset at the end.

You tell me which route is smarter.
I have been driving a 300 dollar GEO into the ground for 7 years now. I figured I would kill it then get something else. I have never even changed the oil. New tires and it needed a new relay once. It just won't die. I use it to do all my errands and put about 40 k a year on it. I use my trucks for work only. Just saying.
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:59 AM  
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So you use your truck for work correct?

Then you should be using a newer truck for that. It all depends on what you want to do with said car. For my running around I drive a paid for Toyota Matrix with 150k on it it needs some work and I am slowly performing that work myself because I am too darn cheap to pay some guy to do what I know I can do.

I bought my wife a nice safe car for her commute that has options like bluetooth sat radio and AWD. She is a nurse and when she needs to go to work she needs to do to work. There is no calling in saying too much snow for her. She gets the new car with a warranty and road side assistance. I get the older car because I live 5 miles from my job and I don't put the miles on my car like she does.

You complain about a bad rep. Guess what you are the one that made poor choices. Don't blame it on my way of thinking. You knew you needed a reliable truck to perform your trade you neglicted that NEED and did what you WANTED.

Just becase some of us can get away with a HOOPTIE doesn't mean everyone can. Car's are by far a horriable investment. You never get any of the money you put into it. But, if you are using it for a business you devalue the assesst at a specific rate and when it is used up you either A buy a new assesst or B keep using it and banking the money for your business. That is basic and simple Accounting 101.

That is like saying you are a mechanic so there for I need to buy a $15k set of tools to work on my car and not the cheap tools I have because you had a Walmart wrench break on you costing you time and money.
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