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Old 09-18-2011, 04:29 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
If you must go in that direction discussion, I will drop to that level as well......

far better then the "let's destroy this economy so obama won't get re-elected" that has been coming from the republican side.

both sides can make pointless arguments......
EXACTLY what I've been saying, both republicans and Democrats are destroying our nation and HAVE (no "ing" about it) destroyed our economy. Obama ain't doing nothing good about the economy, that you can bank on, neither are the republicans. And don't show that useless Bush arguement again, he contributed, I'll agree to that but BOTH Republicans and Democrats have widdled away our industrial might, answering not to the people who elected them . . .US voters & tax payers, but to the big companies that can afford to give them the buck support. Our president, that aparrently we both voted for, is a disappointment to say the least and has not done what he promised. The only "change" he brought us more poverty for the future.

Long before Bush and his papa, the US industry base was outdated following WWII, Japan and Germany both got sate of the art technology, thanks to, you guessed it, the US taxpayer, we went in and rebuilt them. Nothing was done to update OUR industry. WWII was WON by our industrial MIGHT. From THAT point forward, we have ben destined to this. Way way back before Bush, we were trying to get people to see this, instead, we heard about the "fat lazy union guys". and we made up bumper stickers and signs saying,"BUY AMERICAN, the job you save may be your own" and the americans boutght more imports, and we were all layed off. Then the people said, "it happens, you need to train in a different vocation" So they voted OUT the democrats and the republicans came in and STOPPED trade reajustment allowance and training on the tax payer's buck. In conclusion, our pumped up economy, with nothing to it, (meaning no exports to speak of, or even anything getting built here) was real estate and service based and destined, democrat OR republican in office, to FAIL. Take a look at what they are doing to Gibson Guitar Co.
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Old 09-18-2011, 07:26 PM  
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the US industry base was outdated following WWII, Japan and Germany both got sate of the art technology, thanks to, you guessed it, the US taxpayer, we went in and rebuilt them. Nothing was done to update OUR industry.
W. Edward Demmings;
W. Edwards Deming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Dr. W. Edwards Deming

The Marshall Plan rebuilt Europe. We weren't as fond of the Japanese.

Demming went to Detroit and offered them the same things he taught the Japanese. US Industry scoffed at his ideas like building quality into the product rather than focus on removing the scrap before shipment.
In the late 80's he was still being hired to teach seminars at places like AT&T but they still ignored his teachings.

Quote:
Dr. W. Edwards Deming is known as the father of the Japanese post-war industrial revival and was regarded by many as the leading quality guru in the United States. He passed on in 1993.

Trained as a statistician, his expertise was used during World War II to assist the United States in its effort to improve the quality of war materials.

He was invited to Japan at the end of World War II by Japanese industrial leaders and engineers. They asked Dr. Deming how long it would take to shift the perception of the world from the existing paradigm that Japan produced cheap, shoddy imitations to one of producing innovative quality products.
Dr. W. Edwards Deming

Quote:
William Edwards Deming (October 14, 1900 ? December 20, 1993) was an American statistician, professor, author, lecturer and consultant. He is perhaps best known for his work in Japan. There, from 1950 onward, he taught top management how to improve design (and thus service), product quality, testing and sales (the last through global markets)[1] through various methods, including the application of statistical methods.
Deming made a significant contribution to Japan's later reputation for innovative high-quality products and its economic power. He is regarded as having had more impact upon Japanese manufacturing and business than any other individual not of Japanese heritage. Despite being considered something of a hero in Japan, he was only just beginning to win widespread recognition in the U.S. at the time of his death.[2]
W. Edwards Deming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Having strong feelings is fine but works best when accompanied by facts.

Demmings 14 points:

1. Constancy of purpose

Create constancy of purpose for continual improvement of products and service to society, allocating resources to provide for long range needs rather than only short term profitability, with a plan to become competitive, to stay in business, and to provide jobs.








2. The new philosophy

Adopt the new philosophy. We are in a new economic age, created in Japan. We can no longer live with commonly accepted levels of delays, mistakes, defective materials, and defective workmanship. Transformation of Western management style is necessary to halt the continued decline of business and industry.





3. Cease dependence on mass inspection

Eliminate the need for mass inspection as the way of life to achieve quality by building quality into the product in the first place. Require statistical evidence of built in quality in both manufacturing and purchasing functions.





4. End lowest tender contracts

End the practice of awarding business solely on the basis of price tag. Instead require meaningful measures of quality along with price. Reduce the number of suppliers for the same item by eliminating those that do not qualify with statistical and other evidence of quality. The aim is to minimize total cost, not merely initial cost, by minimizing variation. This may be achieved by moving toward a single supplier for any one item, on a long term relationship of loyalty and trust. Purchasing managers have a new job, and must learn it.





5. Improve every process

Improve constantly and forever every process for planning, production, and service. Search continually for problems in order to improve every activity in the company, to improve quality and productivity, and thus to constantly decrease costs. Institute innovation and constant improvement of product, service, and process. It is management's job to work continually on the system (design, incoming materials, maintenance, improvement of machines, supervision, training, retraining).





6. Institute training on the job

Institute modern methods of training on the job for all, including management, to make better use of every employee. New skills are required to keep up with changes in materials, methods, product and service design, machinery, techniques, and service.





7. Institute leadership

Adopt and institute leadership aimed at helping people do a better job. The responsibility of managers and supervisors must be changed from sheer numbers to quality. Improvement of quality will automatically improve productivity. Management must ensure that immediate action is taken on reports of inherited defects, maintenance requirements, poor tools, fuzzy operational definitions, and all conditions detrimental to quality.





8. Drive out fear

Encourage effective two way communication and other means to drive out fear throughout the organization so that everybody may work effectively and more productively for the company.





9. Break down barriers

Break down barriers between departments and staff areas. People in different areas, such as Leasing, Maintenance, Administration, must work in teams to tackle problems that may be encountered with products or service.





10. Eliminate exhortations

Eliminate the use of slogans, posters and exhortations for the work force, demanding Zero Defects and new levels of productivity, without providing methods. Such exhortations only create adversarial relationships; the bulk of the causes of low quality and low productivity belong to the system, and thus lie beyond the power of the work force.





11. Eliminate arbitrary numerical targets

Eliminate work standards that prescribe quotas for the work force and numerical goals for people in management. Substitute aids and helpful leadership in order to achieve continual improvement of quality and productivity.





12. Permit pride of workmanship

Remove the barriers that rob hourly workers, and people in management, of their right to pride of workmanship. This implies, among other things, abolition of the annual merit rating (appraisal of performance) and of Management by Objective. Again, the responsibility of managers, supervisors, foremen must be changed from sheer numbers to quality.





13. Encourage education

Institute a vigorous program of education, and encourage self improvement for everyone. What an organization needs is not just good people; it needs people that are improving with education. Advances in competitive position will have their roots in knowledge.





14. Top management commitment and action

Clearly define top management's permanent commitment to ever improving quality and productivity, and their obligation to implement all of these principles. Indeed, it is not enough that top management commit themselves for life to quality and productivity. They must know what it is that they are committed to?that is, what they must do. Create a structure in top management that will push every day on the preceding 13 Points, and take action in order to accomplish the transformation. Support is not enough: action is required!


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Old 09-18-2011, 07:35 PM  
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Demming & FMC

WW II ended in "45" but it required another 31 years before American Industry even began to try Demming's methodology.

Quote:
Ford Motor Company was one of the first American corporations to seek help from Deming. In 1981, Ford's sales were falling. Between 1979 and 1982, Ford had incurred $3 billion in losses. Ford's newly appointed Division Quality Manager John A. Manoogian was charged with recruiting Dr. Deming to help jump-start a quality movement at Ford.[19] Deming questioned the company's culture and the way its managers operated. To Ford's surprise, Deming talked not about quality but about management. He told Ford that management actions were responsible for 85% of all problems in developing better cars. In 1986 Ford came out with a profitable line of cars, the Taurus-Sable line. In a letter to Autoweek Magazine, Donald Petersen, then Ford Chairman, said, "We are moving toward building a quality culture at Ford and the many changes that have been taking place here have their roots directly in Dr. Deming's teachings."[20] By 1986, Ford had become the most profitable American auto company. For the first time since the 1920s, its earnings had exceeded those of arch rival General Motors (GM). Ford had come to lead the American automobile industry in improvements. Ford's following years' earnings confirmed that its success was not a fluke, for its earnings continued to exceed GM and Chrysler's.
W. Edwards Deming - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
In 1982, Dr. Deming, as author, had his book published by the MIT Center for Advanced Engineering as Quality, Productivity, and Competitive Position, which was renamed Out of the Crisis in 1986. Deming offers a theory of management based on his famous 14 Points for Management. Management's failure to plan for the future brings about loss of market, which brings about loss of jobs. Management must be judged not only by the quarterly dividend, but by innovative plans to stay in business, protect investment, ensure future dividends, and provide more jobs through improved products and services. "Long-term commitment to new learning and new philosophy is required of any management that seeks transformation. The timid and the fainthearted, and the people that expect quick results, are doomed to disappointment."
Over the course of his career, Deming received dozens of academic awards, including another, honorary, Ph.D. from Oregon State University. In 1987 he was awarded the National Medal of Technology: "For his forceful promotion of statistical methodology, for his contributions to sampling theory, and for his advocacy to corporations and nations of a general management philosophy that has resulted in improved product quality." In 1988, he received the Distinguished Career in Science award from the National Academy of Sciences.[6]
Industries like steel were arrogant and didn't modernize even as imports were already beating them out of markets.

Following the war we were the biggest manufacturing powerhouse in the world. Our factories were brand new and we had returning soldiers to staff them. In short we had an edge on everyone. We had to rebuild Europe to retain capitalism there.
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:39 PM  
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Yes, and Kaiser himself went himself and sent people to Japan to show them what they needed. And again, everybody wants to blame the American worker but it was actually technology. Repulicans and democrats BOTH are responsible for our own demise.

When you bomb an entire country into the stone age they rebuild, and YES it was the American tax payers who rebuilt it.
straight from your google wikipedia . . .
World War II wiped out many of the gains Japan had made since 1868. About 40% of the nation's industrial plants and infrastructure were destroyed, and production reverted to levels of about fifteen years earlier. The people were shocked by the devastation and swung into action. New factories were equipped with the best modern machines, giving Japan an initial competitive advantage over the victor states, who now had older factories. As Japan's second period of economic development began, millions of former soldiers joined a well-disciplined and highly educated work force to rebuild Japan. Japan's colonies were lost as a result of World War II, but since then the Japanese have extended their economic influence throughout Asia and beyond. . . . .(See? I can copy & paste too)

Your example is of technique, not technology. If you are using 1930's technology, no matter what, you're not gonna compete with 1950's/60's technology. Like I said, both the dems and reps never did anything because theywere in the pockets of these guys. That was my point, and it was long before Bush & papa came along or Obama.

When Japan RE entered the export/import market, they were given and unfair advantage over American products too. and I might say for quite some time. This was done by BOTH dem and republicans and we are NOW doing it with China!!
And instead of stopping all this when we had a chance, most were smoking pot and dropping acid while tossing rocks at cop and spitting on soldiers coming home from nam, huh.
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Old 09-18-2011, 08:54 PM  
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Originally Posted by blucher View Post
A paper clip or binder scandal? The palm notes were just further proof that blondes & bimbos might need more lifelines than a debate format allows.

If you're scandal mongering as usual you might want to look into who was sleeping in Glen Rice's bed. It wasn't Goldilocks.
Ya know something...I'm really not a Sarah Palin fan. I don't think she's electable or has enough experience to lead our country, but what is it about her that absolutely terrifies the left? Why do you have to resort to name calling when ever her name is mentioned? Afraid of right wing women who can assume leadership? When you respond like this it doesn't make me think less of her but reinforces my opinion that the lefties are scared to death of any republican female.
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Old 09-19-2011, 06:53 AM  
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I don't think it's a matter of the"lefties" being "afraid" of a Republican female. Even the some "righties" are appalled at the idea of her running. I think it's a matter of someone as incompetent as her even being considered. Just my 2 cents. If she is elected I'm moving to Canada.
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Old 09-19-2011, 12:35 PM  
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Originally Posted by oldognewtrick View Post
but what is it about her that absolutely terrifies the left? Why do you have to resort to name calling when ever her name is mentioned? Afraid of right wing women who can assume leadership? When you respond like this it doesn't make me think less of her but reinforces my opinion that the lefties are scared to death of any republican female.
You have right wind female leaders but not recently. When McCain chose Palin to liven his geriatric shot at the Presidency I thought it an insult to the office. Then along came Angle (bat**** crazy), O'Donnell (bat**** crazy), and Babbling Bachmann the pre-eminent (bat**** crazy) example of ineptitude and incompetence..

The Tea Party leaders reflect their minions.


No old school Republican conservative wants these harpies any more than the Left.
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Old 09-19-2011, 12:58 PM  
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...................

Quote:
And again, everybody wants to blame the American worker but it was actually technology.
No, read a bit of Demming and you will understand it was 85% inept management. The post war boom needed managers but also needed to create them. Instead of open dialogue and honest QC these new leaders were trained in the time honored ways of kissing butt & CYA.

Even after hiring Demming to lecture about quality control and management failures AT&T showed no ability to readjust.
A number of groups were formed to allow worker input on quality & costs. My group changed a destructive QC test into a $300,000 nondestructive savings. $50,000 was at the Reading PA location and $250,000 was in our Allentown sister location.

In the end we saved 50K a year in Reading but Allentown spurned the whole idea (cost -$250,000/year) because they hadn't thought of it. These two plants both had DARPA personnel onsite every day.

Quote:
It's the SAME Ol' SAME Obushma Stimulas' that do NOT work. hello out there in Obamaland, wake up, smell the corn.
First I doubt you could explain how a stimulus works and second, I rather doubt you have anything more specific to offer other than a Glen Beck exhortation to "balance the budget". I wish you or someone did know a certain way out of a recession but it appears it's impossible without bipartisan support.

The Right was all about jobs till a jobs bill came along. It's pathetic but the GOP would rather defeat Obama than save the economy.
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Old 09-19-2011, 01:02 PM  
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Originally Posted by blucher View Post
You have right wind female leaders but not recently. When McCain chose Palin to liven his geriatric shot at the Presidency I thought it an insult to the office. Then along came Angle (bat**** crazy), O'Donnell (bat**** crazy), and Babbling Bachmann the pre-eminent (bat**** crazy) example of ineptitude and incompetence..

The Tea Party leaders reflect their minions.


No old school Republican conservative wants these harpies any more than the Left.
Alright blucher, STOP IT!!! you're scaring me (we actually agree on this point)
But you don't understand, "can do no wronga Obama" better start walking on water like he promised or he'll be replaced with bubbling bimbo.
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:34 AM  
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Remember Madeline Albright (sp)? Probably the most effective Secretary of State we have had since Kisinger.
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