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Old 11-15-2011, 11:55 AM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
I never said we all have the same choices in front of us. I am willing to bet most everyone has their own combination of choices to make during a lifetime that are unique to that person. So what?? It is still an individuals responsibility to make choices based on the cards they are dealt. It is not everyone else's. Less than perfect options do not equal "NO OPTIONS". I am willing to bet that MOST all of the situations (you obviously have some particular circumstances in mind) people find themselves in could have been avoided based on some previous choice (I am sure there are some exceptions, but few.). As to why people make those choices, perhaps they had good reason at the time but it doesn't effect the end result of the choice they were free to make.

Oh, and as far as me being "part of the 99%" who cares? I am probably also part of the --% of people that don't know how to ski, or the --% of people who don't collect stamps, or the --% of people who do now own a credit card.... I think you get my drift.
Soooo, other than stating the obvious, what is your point?
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:30 PM  
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Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
Soooo, other than stating the obvious, what is your point?
Well, my point should be pretty obvious. Personal choices are more important than many are willing to admit.
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Old 11-15-2011, 03:14 PM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
Well, my point should be pretty obvious. Personal choices are more important than many are willing to admit.
So you didn't really have anything to say.
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Old 11-16-2011, 07:48 AM  
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Originally Posted by Sideways View Post
So you didn't really have anything to say.
You apparently haven't been reading what I had to say.(?)
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Old 11-16-2011, 09:06 AM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep

You apparently haven't been reading what I had to say.(?)
Sure I did. You just stated the obvious.
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:21 PM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
Well, my point should be pretty obvious. .........
Eh, I believe I already said it was obvious. To me anyway, and apparently you also understand that personal choice and freedom to choose has more to do with what we can or cannot accomplish.

There are many who seem to argue against the obvious!
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Old 11-16-2011, 12:39 PM  
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So you didn't really have anything to say.
He never does...........
I am the 100%-100p.jpg 

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Old 11-16-2011, 02:16 PM  
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He never does...........
Ironic, coming from someone who posts more pictures, second hand articles and comments than your own ideas...
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Old 11-16-2011, 06:31 PM  
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I keep seeing where you keep saying this... I don't quite understand. If a business comes in and hires at ANY rate, then if people come to get the jobs, then do the people WANT these jobs or not??
Well, do you want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, or do you want a yes/no answer to your question?

Given the option of "Work this job 60-80 hours a week and survive" or "die", the answer is yes, they want the job. They'd prefer to have some more choices available, but they'll settle for survival if those choices aren't forthcoming. This is the problem. People's inherent need for survival is being leveraged against them. When someone is drowning in the ocean, they would give up anything just for another breathe of air. Major employers in the menial labor market are using that desperation to force workers to accept pay cuts. "Oh, so sad for you, you can't afford to pay both your food and rent this month. Even after I dock your pay 20%, you're still better off with this job than without it, aren't you? Especially in this economy."



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I don't understand. If there are better jobs around then why don't the folks go work there?? And if there aren't then why aren't folks glad that they now have A job??? It is supply and demand, if there are more high paying jobs then they won't be able to fill the position. If there are more people than jobs then the jobs are in demand more than the people. THAT IS THE WAY ALMOST EVERYTHING WORKS. Like it or not. If you mess with supply and demand it brings about other issues.
You're only looking at one side of the whole. You ignore that workers aren't just workers, they are also consumers, customers.

EVERY business fails, absolutely and completely, without its customers. Every business. When we put a stranglehold on an entire class of Americans, we prevent them from being customers. Every business strives to do right by itself, and damn everyone else. Each business, stealing labor from their workforce by underpaying them, is stealing from every other company as well.

One part of the answer is to stop allowing businesses to be a burden on society. Most already benefit society, benefit the economy. The vast majority of businesses pay well above poverty wages to the vast majority of their workers. Not all do. Some pay barely any of their employees above a poverty wage. Yet these businesses compete in the same goods and services market as those businesses that do pay their employees above poverty wages.

Eliminate those businesses whose hirings practices increase the poverty rate. If the poverty rate in the area is 10%, businesses hiring more than 400 hours of labor per week (10 full time jobs, 20 part time jobs) must pay at least 90% of their employees an hourly wage such that full time employment at that wage will put an average worker above the poverty line.
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Old 11-17-2011, 06:11 AM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
Well, do you want the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, or do you want a yes/no answer to your question?

Given the option of "Work this job 60-80 hours a week and survive" or "die", the answer is yes, they want the job. They'd prefer to have some more choices available, but they'll settle for survival if those choices aren't forthcoming. This is the problem. People's inherent need for survival is being leveraged against them. When someone is drowning in the ocean, they would give up anything just for another breathe of air. Major employers in the menial labor market are using that desperation to force workers to accept pay cuts. "Oh, so sad for you, you can't afford to pay both your food and rent this month. Even after I dock your pay 20%, you're still better off with this job than without it, aren't you? Especially in this economy."





You're only looking at one side of the whole. You ignore that workers aren't just workers, they are also consumers, customers.

EVERY business fails, absolutely and completely, without its customers. Every business. When we put a stranglehold on an entire class of Americans, we prevent them from being customers. Every business strives to do right by itself, and damn everyone else. Each business, stealing labor from their workforce by underpaying them, is stealing from every other company as well.

One part of the answer is to stop allowing businesses to be a burden on society. Most already benefit society, benefit the economy. The vast majority of businesses pay well above poverty wages to the vast majority of their workers. Not all do. Some pay barely any of their employees above a poverty wage. Yet these businesses compete in the same goods and services market as those businesses that do pay their employees above poverty wages.

Eliminate those businesses whose hirings practices increase the poverty rate. If the poverty rate in the area is 10%, businesses hiring more than 400 hours of labor per week (10 full time jobs, 20 part time jobs) must pay at least 90% of their employees an hourly wage such that full time employment at that wage will put an average worker above the poverty line.
I keep hearing your idea for paying based on the "poverty rate" and I must say it is an interesting idea. Interesting, but I still am not sure how comfortable I would be with the meddling with supply and demand.

Anyway, I have always had a problem with the whole "poverty rate" number generated for the country. The cost of living is MUCH different across the country. Someone living in NYC living below the povery line is going to have quite a different quality of life than someone living in South Carolina (for instance). I have had family from the New England area come and visit and they are amazed at how much house you can get for even $150k. Apparently, you can hardly get a shack for that price up there. That is just an example. I think that is one of the issues with basing anything on the poverty rate.

Also, just out of curiosity which businesses in particular are you talking about? is it Wal Mart?
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