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Old 05-06-2011, 11:54 AM  
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Originally Posted by Funetical View Post
So then crime is permissible as long as the victim is asking for it?
I read back into all my posts and couldn't find anywhere I said "....crime is permissible as long as the victim is asking for it..."
As a matter of fact, I said the opposite. The crime is not "permissible".
I just believe that it is up to people to think before they do. It is possible to act irresponsibly or carelessly and set yourself up to become a victim. It is not to say a crime has not been committed.

For example, I read an article (Good Samaritan Gets Robbed, Beaten - Greenville News Story - WYFF Greenville) where a guy stopped to assist a "broken down" motorist on the interstate and was beaten and robbed. The ones who beat and robbed him CERTAINLY DID COMMITT A CRIME. The "good samaritan"
was a little irresponsible (even with good intention) to stop AT 3:45 IN THE MORNING!
Nowadays, you have to think before you do things. Otherwise, you may fall victim. As much as I may want to help a broken down motorist, I don't think I would in the middle of the night. Even in the daytime I would be EXTREMELY cautious.

I will also say (AGAIN) that I would NEVER EVER EVER say a rape is justified.
(apparently you missed the first time I said it...)
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Old 05-06-2011, 11:58 AM  
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Originally Posted by flaja View Post
This isn’t what I have done in the least. I am only pointing out that the more willing a woman is to sleep around the more difficult it is to believe she has been raped.



Before the Sexual Revolution. There once was a time (within living memory) when it was a social disgrace for an un-married woman to end up pregnant. She either married the father or was sent away for 9 months so good girls couldn’t see her as a role model to emulate. As a consequence few unmarried women ever found themselves pregnant. Now it is more norm than exception.



Birth control means sex without consequences. So, yes birth control is a problem.
I agree with this....
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Old 05-06-2011, 02:24 PM  
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Originally Posted by flaja View Post
Before the Sexual Revolution. There once was a time (within living memory) when it was a social disgrace for an un-married woman to end up pregnant. She either married the father or was sent away for 9 months so good girls couldn’t see her as a role model to emulate. As a consequence few unmarried women ever found themselves pregnant. Now it is more norm than exception. ....
Birth control means sex without consequences. So, yes birth control is a problem.
there was also a point in time where having relations with someone of another color could get you killed.....


There is a big reason why most people used to get married in high school or right after and why they used to have dozens of kids...... Imagine the overpopulation we would have without birth control, it would be an absolute disaster

If these women had been using birth control they would be very unlikely to get pregnant....but apparently they likely were not anyways..... probably because they had abstinence forced on them in health class......


Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
I agree with this....
so are you against any other type of human intervention?

aren't birth defects natural? why should we keep infants alive by artificial medicine?

so do you refuse medical treatment? that severely changes the risks we are willing to take and how we plan our lives, some for the better and some for the worse?

what about water, wasn't receiving the poisioning from polluted water the consequences of our actions, I mean we WANT the benefits of industry but we don't want the downsides, according to your logic that is wrong.

why single out sex and birth control?

what is so inherently wrong with having sex without consequences? maybe a severely overpopulated world (and the poverty that usually comes with that) is your idea of a utopia, but not mine
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Old 05-06-2011, 02:35 PM  
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She either married the father or was sent away for 9 months so good girls couldn’t see her as a role model to emulate
I saw that done once. The announced intention was to shield the "good girls" but no thought was ever given to good girls where she was sent. In reality this shielded the parent's from criticism.

It's smoke & mirrors.
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Old 05-06-2011, 03:27 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
there was also a point in time where having relations with someone of another color could get you killed.....
Your point? One morally untenable situation does not make another OK.

Quote:
There is a big reason why most people used to get married in high school or right after and why they used to have dozens of kids...... Imagine the overpopulation we would have without birth control, it would be an absolute disaster
As opposed to the almost 7,000,000,000 people the world has anyway? The availability of birth control for individual acts of sex does not automatically lead to over population on a global scale. You also have to account for the Green Revolution and easy availability of vaccines and anti-biotics.

People used to get married as soon as they could so men could have sex and women could have material security for themselves and their children. But after 5 decades of feminism it is no longer socially acceptable for a woman to be a wife and mother. And we still have an over-populated world with failing schools, divorce and juvenile delinquency because we no longer have functional families.

Quote:
aren't birth defects natural? why should we keep infants alive by artificial medicine?
For the record I was born 10 weeks pre-mature weighing only 3 pounds-6 ounces, and had to spend the first 2 months of my life (almost to the hour) in an incubator. I?ve had libertarians on the net tell me that I should have been aborted since I didn?t deserve to be alive since I had to rely on artificial means to stay alive.

And in retrospect I would certainly have been better off if I had been aborted since neither of my parents had any ability or natural desire to be parents.
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Old 05-06-2011, 03:32 PM  
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Originally Posted by blucher View Post
I saw that done once. The announced intention was to shield the "good girls" but no thought was ever given to good girls where she was sent. In reality this shielded the parent's from criticism.

It's smoke & mirrors.
Explain. I would venture that most un-married pregnancies ended up with a shotgun wedding so these girls were not permitted to flaunt their immorality. But in situations where an un-wed but pregnant girl was sent away she likely ended up in a home for un-wed but pregnant girls so she still wasn?t able to flaunt her immorality.
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Old 05-06-2011, 04:32 PM  
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Originally Posted by flaja View Post
Your point? One morally untenable situation does not make another OK.
no it doesn't....... and encouraging a religious bias on other people is not ok either....
Quote:
As opposed to the almost 7,000,000,000 people the world has anyway?
you don't think it would be significantly higher if birth control was banned? really?, Lame tactic by the way throwing out worldwide numbers that are big to make a point that is false, if each generation in countries where birth control is common has 2 kids and in countries where birth control is banned the families have 6 kids, do the math, throwing out numbers like that with no contextual meaning is pointless and absurd
Quote:
The availability of birth control for individual acts of sex does not automatically lead to over population on a global scale. You also have to account for the Green Revolution and easy availability of vaccines and anti-biotics.
think you wrote that wrong as it contradicts itself, birth control reduces population and does not increase the growth of it, even so you don't make a point, so we need fewer kids because not as many will die, that is still fewer people
Quote:

People used to get married as soon as they could so men could have sex and women could have material security for themselves and their children. But after 5 decades of feminism it is no longer socially acceptable for a woman to be a wife and mother. And we still have an over-populated world with failing schools, divorce and juvenile delinquency because we no longer have functional families.
back then housework was a full time job, we didn't have modern conveniences so yes, roles have changed. and all that is because women are working? how do you define over populated world, you keep looking at it as the american family but referring to an over populated world, you do realize there is more to the world then western civilization, and in many countries birth control is rare and sometimes forbidden
Quote:


For the record I was born 10 weeks pre-mature weighing only 3 pounds-6 ounces, and had to spend the first 2 months of my life (almost to the hour) in an incubator. I?ve had libertarians on the net tell me that I should have been aborted since I didn?t deserve to be alive since I had to rely on artificial means to stay alive.

And in retrospect I would certainly have been better off if I had been aborted since neither of my parents had any ability or natural desire to be parents.
Sorry to hear that
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Old 05-06-2011, 05:29 PM  
mohel
 
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Explain. I would venture that most un-married pregnancies ended up with a shotgun wedding so these girls were not permitted to flaunt their immorality. But in situations where an un-wed but pregnant girl was sent away she likely ended up in a home for un-wed but pregnant girls so she still wasn?t able to flaunt her immorality.
Small town Polish Catholic family in Wisconsin. The daughter was shipped to Keesler AFB in Mississippi to hide her. I tried to reach her in the hospital because Biloxi was being hit by a hurricane. They denied her existence because she was preggars & unmarried.
It served as my education in morality in America despite it being the sixties.
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Old 05-06-2011, 05:46 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
no it doesn't....... and encouraging a religious bias on other people is not ok either....
What religious bias? The nuclear family, set on a foundation of marriage, as the only proper setting for raising children is near-universal. It transcends most religions so it is not based on religion. And even when polygamy is permitted in a particular cultural setting adultery, sodomy and promiscuity are usually not acceptable.

Quote:
you don't think it would be significantly higher if birth control was banned?
It would be higher, but not by any appreciable amount. The Green Revolution, vaccines and anti-biotics have had a greater impact in raising the world?s population than birth control has had in lowering it.

Quote:
really?, Lame tactic by the way throwing out worldwide numbers
You were the one to bring up the size of the world?s population, not me.

Quote:
think you wrote that wrong as it contradicts itself, birth control reduces population and does not increase the growth of it, even so you don't make a point, so we need fewer kids because not as many will die, that is still fewer people
I didn?t say that birth control will increase population. But even with birth control the world?s population has still reached historically high levels because of the Green Revolution, vaccines and anti-biotics. We have birth control and still have over-population (by your standards) so your claim that birth control automatically means a smaller population is obviously bogus.

For most of the world?s history birth control wasn?t available, but yet the world still had a very small population relative to the earth?s size and in comparison to the world?s present population. The bubonic plague hit Britain for the first time (in recorded history) in the 14th century. The population was decimated but population loss meant a better diet and more food per capita than what had been known before. But it wasn?t until the 19th century before Britain?s population returned to pre-plague levels even though birth control wasn?t used.

Quote:
back then housework was a full time job, we didn't have modern conveniences so yes, roles have changed.
This is the most ridiculous claim I?ve seen made on the net. Most of these modern conveniences have been around since at least the 1920s. So the dissolution of the family cannot be blamed on reduced housework.

Quote:
how do you define over populated world,
I don?t. It is morally wrong to tell people in certain countries (namely ones in Africa and Asia where birth control isn?t all that common) that they are breeding too much for your satisfaction.

Furthermore, the world?s population should be considered only in light of the world?s carrying capacity. The Green Revolution increased (at least in the short-term) the earth?s ability to feed people. So population naturally increased. If and when the Green Revolution becomes un-sustainable, the world?s population will naturally have to decrease.

Quote:
you keep looking at it as the american family but referring to an over populated world, you do realize there is more to the world then western civilization, and in many countries birth control is rare and sometimes forbidden
The American family, i.e., a man, his wife raising their children is not strictly an American phenomenon. It has been the norm for most of the world for most of the world?s history.
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Old 05-06-2011, 05:52 PM  
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Originally Posted by blucher View Post
Small town Polish Catholic family in Wisconsin. The daughter was shipped to Keesler AFB in Mississippi to hide her. I tried to reach her in the hospital because Biloxi was being hit by a hurricane. They denied her existence because she was preggars & unmarried.
It served as my education in morality in America despite it being the sixties.
Why an Air Force base?

But at any rate you are missing the point. By sleeping around the girl brought disgrace on her family and community. The girl made a mistake, but in today's permissive society she would be allowed to repeat the mistake as often as she likes. And if the girl kept the child without providing him with a stable family environment, i.e., marrying the father when the child could have been adopted by a stable and caring married couple, she undoubtedly raised that child in an environment of neglect.
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