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Old 09-07-2010, 07:30 PM  
southern conservative

Austin, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funetical View Post
I don't think I quite understand your point.

Mine was that people put them selves ion a group, then define their belief on those parameters, as opposed to having a belief, and forming their own group.

It baffles me in a country as diverse as ours, there are only two main groups.
I don?t see how you can come to the conclusion you have. In a free society there are only 3 main groups when it comes to a governing body or ruling body. A conservative, liberal, and a I don?t care (the people that don?t vote at all). Now in each group you will have your lefts and rights and those in betweens but they are still one group. If a person joins a group it?s because they feel like they have more in common with that group. They already have their beliefs in place, and are just looking for like minded people to share them with. Kind of like the Republicans and Democrats. The left Dems want more government control and the right Reps want less. The Tea Party is basically the Republican Party but feel that the Republicans that are in office now have strayed from the republican path and have become corrupt. We want to clean out congress. There should be no career politicians.
So in reply to your post, I don?t see people joining groups and either forming their opinions or changing their opinions. They join a group based on them. And because of that the group get stronger and its voice is bigger. The libertarian party is small because the percentage of mentally ill people that can legally vote is small.
I personally believe it?s impossible to join a group and THEN form a belief. You must have SOME form of belief before you join or you wouldn?t be able to pick a group in the first place.
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Old 09-08-2010, 04:02 PM  
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In our free society there are three bodies? I disagree with you there. There are 2. Tea Partyers are disenchanted republicans, but republicans all the same.

My argument is we allow our groups to define our ideals. I have very little I like about the two major parties, and I don't easily fall into any of the rest. Surely there are more people like me?
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:22 PM  
Poison Idea

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Sounds like you'd like the Libertarian Party, basically the Tea Party before the Tea Party and not full of idiots who think Glen Back and Sarah Palin are going to save us all.

Libertarian Party | Maximum Freedom, Minimum Government

Socially Liberal, fiscally Conservative, it's essentially a middle ground between both the Dems and Reps. Only issue I don't agree with them on is their advocacy of open boarders. It and abortion seem to be the 2 biggest issues people within the party disagree with the most.
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Old 09-09-2010, 09:44 PM  
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I agree, I have often voted for the libertarian party out of desperation for a third choice.

Choosing between republican and democrat is like choosing the lesser of two evils.

And I hate when people tell me that I am throwing my vote away when I vote for an independent. If everyone has that mentality then a third party will never be able to rise up.
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Old 09-10-2010, 09:14 AM  
facepalm
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funetical View Post
Wrong, defining your belief, or the beliefs of others, through systematic categorization only limits the potential of individuals, and hence the movement.
qft
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funetical View Post

It baffles me in a country as diverse as ours, there are only two main groups.
qft
Quote:
Originally Posted by 78BO View Post
In a free society there are only 3 main groups when it comes to a governing body or ruling body. A conservative, liberal, and a I don?t care (the people that don?t vote at all).
i DO NOT associate myself with a politcal party, yet i vote every term. i do not vote for state issues because i am military and do not reside in the state i vote in, therefore it is extremely difficult for me to be current on things. i do however take presidential voting extremely serious. i think you may be speaking from a slightly biased side of things. from what i read from your post, you seem to think that someone who doesn't associate themselves with a political party, or movemnt, doesn't care. that theroy is both ignorant, and untrue. if you are unable to find a fault in every political party, you are wearing blinders and YOU are wasting your vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by addie View Post

And I hate when people tell me that I am throwing my vote away when I vote for an independent. If everyone has that mentality then a third party will never be able to rise up.
qft
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:28 PM  
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Franklin, TN
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quotes for refrence...

#1
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepcache View Post
...from what i read from your post, you seem to think that someone who doesn't associate themselves with a political party, or movemnt, doesn't care. that theroy is both ignorant, and untrue. if you are unable to find a fault in every political party, you are wearing blinders and YOU are wasting your vote.
#2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funetical
To lump yourselves based on common belief is one thing, but to form the construct, then changing you belief to accommodate the whole, is what I'm challenging.
#3
Quote:
Originally Posted by fentical
In our free society there are three bodies? I disagree with you there. There are 2. Tea Partyers are disenchanted republicans, but republicans all the same.

My argument is we allow our groups to define our ideals. I have very little I like about the two major parties, and I don't easily fall into any of the rest. Surely there are more people like me?
Funetical, you state "...I disagree with you there. There are 2 [political parties or 'bodies']. (#3)." You also claim, #2 in summary, changing ideals to meet a groups need is bad.

Here lies the problem with your argument: you completely ignore the beliefs of everyone except republican and democrat. Indeed, sir, the Tea Partyers are a form of republican...republicans who DIDN'T change ideals to meet a groups need. Instead, they removed themselves from the cumbersome giant...a move you hastily sweep under the carpet for your argument's sake.

What you write is exactly opposite of your argument in #3. You state "My argument is we allow our groups to define our ideals." while hurriedly writing off, in the same post mind you, groups that separate from a main (such as the tea party) because, though the views are similar, they aren't the same. You're post doesn't follow logical patterns.

I quoted JeepCache for emphasis...
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:09 AM  
southern conservative

Austin, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepcache View Post
qft

qft

i DO NOT associate myself with a politcal party, yet i vote every term. i do not vote for state issues because i am military and do not reside in the state i vote in, therefore it is extremely difficult for me to be current on things. i do however take presidential voting extremely serious. i think you may be speaking from a slightly biased side of things. from what i read from your post, you seem to think that someone who doesn't associate themselves with a political party, or movemnt, doesn't care. that theroy is both ignorant, and untrue. if you are unable to find a fault in every political party, you are wearing blinders and YOU are wasting your vote.

qft
I do speak from a biased side. And I bet if you told us what topics mattered to you and how you voted I could tell you which party you fall in. I am of course a conservative, but I do have some liberal feelings and vote on such. As for your comment on the parties and which are ignorant. Please re-read my post. I stated the 3rd party is the people that don?t care and DON?T VOTE. If you vote then you are not classified with this party. And again, if you give us your reasons for voting the way you did or do I can tell you what party you belong to.
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Old 09-12-2010, 06:58 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 78BO View Post
I do speak from a biased side. And I bet if you told us what topics mattered to you and how you voted I could tell you which party you fall in. I am of course a conservative, but I do have some liberal feelings and vote on such. As for your comment on the parties and which are ignorant. Please re-read my post. I stated the 3rd party is the people that don?t care and DON?T VOTE. If you vote then you are not classified with this party. And again, if you give us your reasons for voting the way you did or do I can tell you what party you belong to.
thanks for the offer, but, i say again, i do not associate myself with a politcal party. i didnt say your politcal party was ignorant (although i firmly believe that both conservatives and liberals have their fair share of ignorance) i said YOU were being ignorant. by being biased, you are ignoring obvious faults just to get a win for your 'team'. political parties are only there to get the vote of the uninformed voter i.e. (im a republican, mccain says hes a republican, im going to vote for him). if there was no labeling as such, voters would actually have to pay attention.
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Old 09-12-2010, 07:53 PM  
southern conservative

Austin, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepcache View Post
thanks for the offer, but, i say again, i do not associate myself with a politcal party. i didnt say your politcal party was ignorant (although i firmly believe that both conservatives and liberals have their fair share of ignorance) i said YOU were being ignorant. by being biased, you are ignoring obvious faults just to get a win for your 'team'. political parties are only there to get the vote of the uninformed voter i.e. (im a republican, mccain says hes a republican, im going to vote for him). if there was no labeling as such, voters would actually have to pay attention.
Ignorance by definition means lack of knowledge, information, or education; the state of being ignorant. Ignorant I'm not.
I know there are faults in all three parties. While you might not agree with every idea from every person in your party you still have the same core beliefs. There is no way in hell that there will ever be a government administration that will cater to every person. There are way too many people in this country to do that. So you vote for the best possible person that has the most in common with you. The liberal or independent party is a waist of a vote. It would be one thing if the liberal voters were getting larger and actually able to make a move on the other two parties, but they are not . Each year they get bet by the same percentage of votes. They will never be anything more than a way for people to protest the two major parties. That?s why their votes never count. To deny the facts is ignorant
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Old 09-12-2010, 08:17 PM  
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i have yet to se a single "fact" in this entire thread, weather it be your post or mine, it's all opinion, so lets get past that right now.

second, you seem to have changed your stance. earlier in this thread you said "A conservative, liberal, and a I don’t care (the people that don’t vote at all)" which doesnt even acknowledge independents. this country is built on revolution, defiying the norm and thinking outside of the box. if you think that because someone votes outside of the usual rep. dem. race they wasted their vote, then you are denying basis of what this country stands for.

i would bet that after the pure stupidity of bush, and the masked socialism of obama, people will be looking alot harder for a fresh set of viewpoints, because the 'big 2' arent getting the job done. thats for sure.
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