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Old 08-27-2011, 09:16 PM  
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Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
Obama - July 14, 2009 in Warren, Michigan - "Now, my administration has a job to do as well, and that job is to get this economy back on its feet. That's my job, and it's a job I gladly accept. I love these folks who helped get us in this mess and then suddenly say, well, this is Obama's economy. That's fine. Give it to me."

So that was 2009. Since then...

1) The unemployment rate has risen from 7.6% then to 9.1% now (when Obama said that post-stimulus it would be no higher than 8%)
and if there was any intention of being fair you would use numbers from one year into the presidency on, instead of beginning of 2009, which he had no influence over since the economy was plummeting.

if you and a friend are driving a car and he drives it over the cliff and jumps in the backseat and pushes you into the driver's seat, who wrecked the car, according to your logic you did.
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2) The Obama administration raised the national debt by approximately $4 trillion, and counting. He did more in 2.5 years than Bush did with two wars in 8 years
it didn't matter who took over, the economy was in free fall. and we are in debt because republicans have blocked any attempt to roll back the bush tax cuts that were promised to be self paying.

plus cleaning up two unfunded and UNCOUNTED wars doesn't help, the war costs that were excluded from being counted under bush despite being there but was counted under Obama.....?
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3) "Long-term unemployed" has risen from 2.6 million to 6.2 million
see 1
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4) Then, the average price of gas was $1.83. Now it's $3.79
no president controls gas prices, that is just absurd, should we quote hotdog and dog food prices as well?
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5) Then, Americans on foodstamps numbered at 32 million. Now, it's 44 million
see 1
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6) During his first two years in office, his administration raised more national debt than the first 100 U.S. Congresses combined
see 2, he counted the bush war debt instead of acting like it is not there
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7) The combined debt of the major GSEs (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and Sallie Mae) has increased from 3.2 trillion in 2008 to 6.4 trillion in 2011. They're subsidized, so the American taxpayers are paying for that
see 1
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8) The trade deficit in 2010 was 33% bigger than it was in 2009, and is expected to rise more in 2011
2009 was a major buying recession, what were the long term average, why not start from a non crash year? picking and choosing data?, we have been a major importer for quite a while, that issue didn't radically change under obama
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9) Last year, only 66.8% of American men had a job. That's the lowest number in recorded history
american men with jobs have dropped steadily over the last 50 years correlating fairly well with lowering taxes on the rich....

what was the rate pre-crash.....oh, about 80% during most of bush's term, but stats like this only matter when a democrat is in office
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10) During the first 3 months of 2011, the least number of new homes were sold than ever before in recorded history
really? after having such a surplus of new homes and little construction because the used market is still oversupplied we have fewer new home sales, well goddamn what a surprise there.
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11) Since 2009, the American dollar has fallen nearly 20% compared to other major currencies
yes, it has, we had an ECONOMIC BUBBLE, and a pretty damn big one at that
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12) Reuters reported on August 17, 2011, that a record 26% of Americans approve of Obama's handling of the economy
Yes, I disagree with what he's done as well, he's bowed and done everything the way republicans would traditionally handle it (pre tea party), he couldn't even get the bush tax cuts to end, that alone would have been a major boost to our currencies credibility and a boost to investment due to the lowering of deficit spending and an incentive to spend more on reinvestment then stockpiling it
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Old 08-27-2011, 10:03 PM  
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Twelve legit numbers, and twelve excuses.

Cutting the bush tax cuts will raise taxes on everyone, not just the rich. It's a big tax hike for every American.

Or, what word do they use, "Revenues"
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Old 08-28-2011, 12:09 AM  
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Someone is still drinking that Kool Aid I see!
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Old 08-28-2011, 10:02 AM  
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Originally Posted by havasu View Post
Someone is still drinking that Kool Aid I see!
Yeah, I know, It's amazing how many people are still believing that the republican/tea-party method will get us out of this mess created by the republican policies..... that kool aid is some strong stuff.
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Old 08-28-2011, 03:50 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ

Yeah, I know, It's amazing how many people are still believing that the republican/tea-party method will get us out of this mess created by the republican policies..... that kool aid is some strong stuff.
He was talking to both of us there, killer :-)
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Old 08-28-2011, 04:16 PM  
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And with 3 out of 4 Americans thinking that the president has failed us economically, there's the far majority "drinking my kool aid" -- you're pretty far in the minority, my friend.
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Old 08-28-2011, 04:26 PM  
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Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
And with 3 out of 4 Americans thinking that the president has failed us economically, there's the far majority "drinking my kool aid" -- you're pretty far in the minority, my friend.
1.) that is not what the poll said, it was about how he handled it which is not the same as "failing us economically", with most people those polls only matter when it comes down to is it better for them now or not, and this is a deep recession and a lot of people thought we could just pop back out of it.....

and just because they disapproved of the way obama handled (so did I) doesn't mean they want the alternative of the republicans (which is pretty much how obama did handle it, at least how they would have pre tea party), we will see come election time. Since democrats don't have any real chance at voting a real democrat into office the best we can get is this almost democrat, practically a republican president obama (Obama may talk up democrat positions for sure, but look at how quickly and easily he will fall back to a republican position, even boehner said they got 98% of what they wanted from the debt deal, what did the democrats get? oh we get to keep medicare and social security!!!!!!!, that is pretty much all they got out of it.
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Old 08-28-2011, 10:28 PM  
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No one really got anything out of the debt deal as the spending goes on. If China ever demands its interest payment in gold we are in for a world of hurt. It would be painful to deliver thirty or forty billion dollars in gold every month.
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Old 08-28-2011, 10:50 PM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
No one really got anything out of the debt deal as the spending goes on. If China ever demands its interest payment in gold we are in for a world of hurt. It would be painful to deliver thirty or forty billion dollars in gold every month.
If China demands its interest payments in gold, they can be told to go **** themselves. T-bills are a good place to store money because little of the real value of a t-bill isn't lost to inflation. But you won't increase the real value of wealth much, if at all, with t-bills either - the interest paid on them is very close to the inflation rate.

Which means those loans are effectively at 0%, and the 30 to 40 billion dollars you're referring to represents no loss to the nation, as it is payment for money previously received. You're only looking at half of the transaction, not the transaction as a whole.
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Old 08-29-2011, 06:00 AM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
If China demands its interest payments in gold, they can be told to go **** themselves. T-bills are a good place to store money because little of the real value of a t-bill isn't lost to inflation. But you won't increase the real value of wealth much, if at all, with t-bills either - the interest paid on them is very close to the inflation rate.

Which means those loans are effectively at 0%, and the 30 to 40 billion dollars you're referring to represents no loss to the nation, as it is payment for money previously received. You're only looking at half of the transaction, not the transaction as a whole.
So you somehow imagine that the real debt and the unfunded liabilities even beyond that are unimportant just because current interest rates happen to be low? So who is looking at only half the transaction? Borrowed money that can't be repaid is a problem for a household or a nation, what did Obama say about debt before it became his problem?
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