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Old 11-28-2012, 02:52 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
Did you read the first article? They had to make besteality (and animal pimping) illegal at the urging of animal rights people.... So why would they do that if it was already illegal???
Ever hear the phrase "Solution in search of a problem"? Certainly wouldn't be the first time that legislators created laws for the sake of creating laws.

All I saw from the page you cited was speculation that people were pimping animals. I saw no evidence that such things actually existed.

Show me someone who was accused of pimping animals **AND** show me that they couldn't already be charged for having done so.

I've got a friend stationed in Germany right now. She had to jump through hoops in German law just to own an aquarium. They're actually fairly stringent on their animal cruelty laws.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:03 PM  
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OMG... What do you need??
http://www.businessinsider.com/besti...rothels-2012-2

Quote:
A German Newspaper Says 'Animal Brothels' Are On The Rise As Bestiality Becomes 'Lifestyle' Choice
Adam Taylor | Feb. 3, 2012, 11:52 AM | 23,466 | 21

An animal protection officer in the German state of Hesse has expressed frustration with a German law that makes spreading bestiality porn illegal — but the act itself legal.

Madeleine Martin told the Frankfurter Rundschau that current laws were not protecting animals from zoophilia, and the problem was getting worse.

"There are now animal brothels in Germany," Martin told the paper, and people were playing down the importance of the act by describing it as a "lifestyle".

Luckily Germany's animal protection laws, dating from 1969, are due to be reformed soon. Let's hope the German government sees sense and outlaws animal brothels, finally.

(h/t The Local)



Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/besti...#ixzz2DYM6msev
http://www.examiner.com/article/popu...many-petitions

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20120203-40531.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2191677.html

http://forcechange.com/16742/stop-an...t-animal-rape/

You want more? Google it.... I really wasn't aware how prevelant it was until I read the initial article... I was one of those people that was like "..Really?? That was (or is) legal?"

And again "LIFESTYLE CHOICE" Sounds like familiar verbage to me....
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:07 PM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/28/...imals-finally/

See this article also.... It is evidence that over there, they have made homosexuality mainstream.. Now, they will be pressured by "ZETA".. You read their statement and it almost sounds like a pro gay group...
Yeah, yeah, yeah... And NAMBLA is all pissed off about age of consent laws and gay sex with underage kids in the US. As if their opinion actually mattered.
Quote:

It's just nasty. Right now, most of you would agree with me saying it is "nasty"..... Give it 5-10 years of homosexuality being mainstream and widely accepted and then people will be arguing with folks on here about whether sex with animals is nasty....
"Nastiness" is not to be regulated. It's entirely subjective. Some people consider any sort of sexual contact to be nasty - reproduction should only be performed via artificial insemination. But "nastiness" isn't the legal reason that humans shouldn't fornicate with animals. "Informed Consent" is. Adult humans are presumed to have it; animals are presumed not to have it. By the time we need to address that issue, our legal system will have changed so much that any conversation we have about it now would seem utterly meaningless.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:13 PM  
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Well, let me ask you this... Have you ever had a dog "hump your leg"? I think you know where I'm going with that. I would prefer not to go into graphic detail but if someone were to "make themselves available" in that sort of situation is that animal practicing "informed consent"? Is that okay?

Also, didn't you look at the other articles? Sounds like these animal brothels or "erotic zoos" are becoming quite common... (or were anyway...) So wouldn't you concede that it was in fact legal (as you were arguing against earlier?)
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:18 PM  
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Hey, don't knock the messenger... just telling you what road we're heading down!



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_zoophilia
Quote:
History of zoophiliaFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search The history of zoophilia (also known as bestiality) begins in the prehistoric era, where depictions of humans and animals in a sexual context appear infrequently in European rock art.[1] Bestiality remained a theme in mythology and folklore through the classical period and into the Middle Ages (e.g. the Greek myth of Leda and the Swan)[2] and several ancient authors purported to document it as a regular, accepted practice – albeit usually in "other" cultures.

Explicit legal prohibition of human sexual contact with animals is a legacy of the Abrahamic religions:[2] the Hebrew Bible imposes the death penalty on both the person and animal involved in an act of bestiality.[3] There are several examples known from medieval Europe of people and animals executed for committing bestiality. With the Age of Enlightenment, bestiality was subsumed with other sexual "crimes against nature" into civil sodomy laws, usually remaining a capital crime.

Bestiality remains illegal in most countries and condoned in none. Though religious and "crime against nature" arguments may still be used to justify this, today the central issue is the ability of non-human animals to give consent: it is argued that sex with animals is inherently abusive.[4] In common with many paraphilias, the internet has allowed the formation of a zoophile community that has begun to lobby for zoophilia or zoosexuality to be considered an alternative sexuality and for the legalisation of bestiality.[5]
Huh, that last statement sounds familiar too....
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:11 PM  
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............

I feel nasty just listening to justifications to be....nasty! !
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:08 PM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
Well, let me ask you this... Have you ever had a dog "hump your leg"? I think you know where I'm going with that. I would prefer not to go into graphic detail but if someone were to "make themselves available" in that sort of situation is that animal practicing "informed consent"? Is that okay?
No, that's not informed consent. Just as children are legally incapable of consenting to sex, animals are incapable of legally consenting to sex. Assume the age of consent is 16. Even if a 15-year-old chooses to have sex with an adult, the adult commits statutory rape as the 15-year-old is presumed not legally capable of consenting.

The desire or actions of the animal or the child is irrelevant. Neither possess the legal ability to consent to the act in question.

Quote:

Also, didn't you look at the other articles? Sounds like these animal brothels or "erotic zoos" are becoming quite common... (or were anyway...) So wouldn't you concede that it was in fact legal (as you were arguing against earlier?)
No, I would not. I asked for two parts - the existence of these brothels, and evidence that the participants cannot be charged under existing laws. I've yet to see evidence that sex with an animal cannot be charged under other existing laws, such as animal cruelty laws, or anti-prostitution laws. Unless both parts are true, creating a law specifically to prohibit bestiality is a waste of time. Use the current laws. If the penalties are insufficient, fix the current laws. But don't regulate simply for the sake of regulation. (Aren't you a conservative? Aren't you all about small, efficient government and minimal regulation?)
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:24 PM  
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Basically, you're trying to say that gay marriage is closer to dog-****ing than it is to marriage. We get it. Your position is absurd, and radically regressive. We get it. By all means, continue to alienate the majority of the nation that disagrees with you.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:52 PM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
Basically, you're trying to say that gay marriage is closer to dog-****ing than it is to marriage. We get it. Your position is absurd, and radically regressive. We get it. By all means, continue to alienate the majority of the nation that disagrees with you.
That is not exactly what I am saying. What I am saying is that those things are likely to be one of the next So called "civil rights" issues that will likely use the same type of argument. Neither of these are natural relationships.


I still don't know how to "prove it isn't already covered under some other law" other than all the articles saying there needed to be a law. Also, I couldn't find a single article about how many of these establishments were being shut down (or ANY for that matter) in Germany. All indications are that it has been legal by default. It was bunched in with male on male sex and then they knocked down the entire statute (with the intent of legalizing homosexuality of course). With the uninteded consequence(presumably) of making bestiality legal. One of the articles even says that bestiality porn is illegal but the "pimping" of animals and bestiality itself was not. (this was prior to the new law no doubt..)
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:18 PM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
That is not exactly what I am saying. What I am saying is that those things are likely to be one of the next So called "civil rights" issues that will likely use the same type of argument. Neither of these are natural relationships.
All the same things were brought up as arguments against miscegenation.

The next major civil rights issue related to sexuality will likely be polygamy. That will ultimately end with a major adjustment of domestic relations laws to allow for >2 parent families. We'll likely see the first skirmishes into this area in the next 10 to 20 years.
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