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Old 12-14-2010, 04:01 PM  
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Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
In the late 80's, the Swiss permitted drug use in a park called Zurich Park, or also called "Needle Park." Within a few years, the number of normal drug users at the park jumped from around 200 to 20,000 - it had become a magnet for druggies around the world. Within 5 years, crime had run so rampant that they had to shut the park down and terminate the "drug legalization experiment."
Was Cannabis included in this study? I can honestly say that I have seen NUMEROUS productive members of society that use nothing more than cannabis (myself included) I can agree that I have yet to see heroin junkie or meth head as a productive member of society.

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In 2002, Marijuana was the number two reason for being admitted into rehab - even more common than crack cocaine, which was number three. Pretty surprising for a "harmless drug."
Reason being is because there are more users of cannabis than any of the other 2 combined. A good majority of the users busted for simple possession were given a choice - Jail or rehab. Show me the statistics of people who went to rehab on their own accord for cannabis addiction. Im sure your numbers would change drastically.

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Combine that with the fact that users who use marijuana are 63% more likely to use cocaine or other more serious drugs. compared with those who have never used marijuana are about 1% likely. So, in short, 63 of 100 people who have used marijuana will use cocaine or another harder drug, and approximately 1 in 100 who never use marijuana will ever use anything else. That is why it's called a gateway drug.
Like I stated before, its because its illegal and I am getting my meds from the guy who is about making $$$. He makes his $$ by selling other things that are illicit as well. I mean, I dont go to their house to buy cigarettes and booze do I?

As a kid when I went to the store to buy a soda, I am standing next to 3 doors of soft drinks to the 7 doors of alcoholic beverages.

Dont get me wrong, I dont want my children exposed to those things either but if I had a choice - I would prefer that my daughter go to a party and smoke a joint ANYDAY before she took even one sip of alcohol. (Provided she was 21 in EITHER case)
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Old 12-15-2010, 08:10 AM  
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I can honestly say that if marijuana would ever be legalized in the US, I would start filling out my immigration papers the same day.



I love this forum!
I feel the rest was covered by Vapor quite well so I'm only going to address this part.


Why would you leave? There are many things I don't like about our system and some of the laws, but I would never leave, it's the duty of every American to make this country their own. That's the great thing about our form of government.

A man's country is not a certain area of land, of mountains, rivers, and woods, but it is a principle; and patriotism is loyalty to that principle. ~George William Curtis
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Old 12-15-2010, 08:52 AM  
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I feel the rest was covered by Vapor quite well so I'm only going to address this part.


Why would you leave? There are many things I don't like about our system and some of the laws, but I would never leave, it's the duty of every American to make this country their own. That's the great thing about our form of government.

A man's country is not a certain area of land, of mountains, rivers, and woods, but it is a principle; and patriotism is loyalty to that principle. ~George William Curtis
This



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Old 12-15-2010, 12:37 PM  
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dont get me wrong, i pretty much agree, but you have to realize thatevery country is different.
That may be true for some issues, but I'm not sure it's true in this case. Also, you skirt the issue of whether or not the government has the legal authority to poke their collective nose in our business and dictate what we may and may not ingest.

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because something works in Portugal does not mean it will work here. communism works in china, so it should work here right?
Actually, capitalism is working great for the Chinese these days. But that's a topic for another thread.
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:33 PM  
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Originally Posted by Austin View Post
I feel the rest was covered by Vapor quite well so I'm only going to address this part.


Why would you leave? There are many things I don't like about our system and some of the laws, but I would never leave, it's the duty of every American to make this country their own. That's the great thing about our form of government.

A man's country is not a certain area of land, of mountains, rivers, and woods, but it is a principle; and patriotism is loyalty to that principle. ~George William Curtis
Well, I can't say my answer won't offend anybody.

I love this country. I think I'm incredibly lucky to have been born here, and ever since I turned 18 I've been trying to serve and protect it, to try and feel like I deserve to live here, as opposed to have been born in Africa, or some other third world country.

So therein lies the rub. If America gives into this illegal drug argument and really ever legalizes it, I'd actually feel like America let me down. For those of you guys who don't already know me, I'm definitely conservative and would call myself old-school, even though I'm only 23. I'm a firm believer that America was founded with God's blessing and that's why America has flourished so much and developed into the power it is today (Please don't comment on this. That's an entirely different thread.)

I'm very sad to see the direction that America is going, clearly away from God's own values and ideals. I'm afraid that'd probably be the last straw for a country I've dedicates mine (and my family's) life to thus far.



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Originally Posted by Brian View Post
That may be true for some issues, but I'm not sure it's true in this case. Also, you skirt the issue of whether or not the government has the legal authority to poke their collective nose in our business and dictate what we may and may not ingest.


Actually, capitalism is working great for the Chinese these days. But that's a topic for another thread.
That is - we should definitely start a Chinese thread on their government, because I somewhat agree with you! Maybe tonight when I get off work! Or do me a favor and go ahead and start it, so I can have some exciting argument to come home to, and ignore my wife!
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:06 PM  
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I can see your point(s) though Jake, and if I was approaching the whole 'legalization' issue for the wrong reason (which a good portion may be) I might just be on that bandwagon with you.

IF the whole cannabis movement was JUST about the (okay Ill say it) getting high aspect of it - then I could agree that regulation/legalization etc would be a bad idea.

But its not just about that. The INDUSTRIAL values, medicinal values, (heck even FOOD) are all possibilities from this plant. If the government decided to say the heck with it all tomorrow and 'just legalize' without any sort of oversight/regulations/or planning in place, I would agree that its a bad idea. But based on my (limited) encounters and research, it becomes clearer and clearer that SOMETHING needs to be done DIFFERENTLY.

Is that legalization?
Decriminalization?
Strictly regulated by some assemblance of a governing body?

While I tout the 'legalize and regulate/decrim' flag, I think that my argument lies more heavily on 'what you are doing now isnt working and hasnt worked for some time. OR if it IS working, the cost doesnt outweigh the benefits of conducting business the way you have'

You know what makes me want to jump ship and file my immigration papers?
The fact that more lives are ruined by the results of prohibition WAY more than the chances of addiction or any other byproducts of using this plant.
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Old 12-16-2010, 03:12 AM  
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I'm all for using it for other purposes. Just not legally endorsing getting high as an "American right." That's the part that disgusts me.
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:16 AM  
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I'm all for using it for other purposes. Just not legally endorsing getting high as an "American right." That's the part that disgusts me.
Although it's already an American right?

Do you believe we should reestablish total prohibition then?

Isn't America letting you down by was billions of dollars in the drug war, creating global strife, and limiting a highly taxable commodity in what is essentially a depression?
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:48 AM  
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Also, you skirt the issue of whether or not the government has the legal authority to poke their collective nose in our business and dictate what we may and may not ingest.
because i didnt mention it does not mean i skirted anything. read some of my previous posts.
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Old 12-16-2010, 04:16 PM  
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Also, you skirt the issue of whether or not the government has the legal authority to poke their collective nose in our business and dictate what we may and may not ingest.
Yes they do.

U S Food and Drug Administration Home Page

This is a form of governmental control I support.
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