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Old 06-28-2011, 06:42 PM  
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The meaning of a flagged draped coffin

Meaning of Flag Draped Coffin

All Americans should be given this lesson. Those who think that America is an arrogant nation should really reconsider that thought. Our founding fathers used GOD's word and teachings to establish our Great Nation and I think it's high time Americans get re-educated about this Nation's history.

Pass it along and be proud of the country we live in and even more proud of those who serve to protect our 'GOD GIVEN' rights and freedoms.

I hope you take the time to read this ... To understand what the flag draped coffin really means ... Here is how to understand the flag that laid upon it and is surrendered to so many widows and widowers.

Do you know that at military funerals, the 21-gun salute stands for the sum of the numbers in the year 1776?

Have you ever noticed the honor guard pays meticulous attention to correctly folding the United States of America Flag 13 times? You probably thought it was to symbolize the original 13 colonies, but we learn something new every day!

The 1st fold of the flag is a symbol of life.

The 2nd fold is a symbol of the belief in eternal life.

The 3rd fold is made in honor and remembrance of the veterans departing the ranks who gave a portion of their lives for the defense of the country to attain peace throughout the world.

The 4th fold represents the weaker nature, for as American citizens trusting in God, it is to Him we turn in times of peace as well as in time of war for His divine guidance.

The 5th fold is a tribute to the country, for in the words of Stephen Decatur, 'Our Country, in dealing with other countries, may she always be right; but it is still our country, right or wrong.'

The 6th fold is for where people's hearts lie. It is with their heart that they pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America , and the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.

The 7th fold is a tribute to its Armed Forces, for it is through the Armed Forces that they protect their country and their flag against all her enemies, whether they be found within or without the boundaries of their republic.

The 8th fold is a tribute to the one who entered into the valley of the shadow of death, that we might see the light of day.

The 9th fold is a tribute to womanhood, and Mothers. For it has been through their faith, their love, loyalty and devotion that the character of the men and women who have made this country great has been molded.

The 10th fold is a tribute to the father, for he, too, has given his sons and daughters for the defense of their country since they were first born.

The 11th fold represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon and glorifies in the Hebrews eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The 12th fold represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in the Christians eyes, God the Father, the Son and Holy Spirit.

The 13th fold, or when the flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost reminding them of their Nations motto, 'In God We Trust.'

After the flag is completely folded and tucked in, it takes on the appearance of a cocked hat, ever reminding us of the soldiers who served under General George Washington, and the Sailors and Marines who served under Captain John Paul Jones, who were followed by their comrades and shipmates in the Armed Forces of the United States, preserving for them the rights, privileges and freedoms they enjoy today.
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Old 06-28-2011, 06:52 PM  
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Excellent post!! We, as Americans, also have the right to criticise our government as we all do at times and never think that in many countries, that will get you in jail or shot.

May GOD bless America
of many one- and under GOD
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:00 PM  
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so the founding father's specified this? really? proof? or was this another form of religion snuck into our government processes in order to attempt to legitimize religion?
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:11 PM  
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OK, to be fair to RedJeep, this is an article I just found.

Furor After Flag-Folding Ceremony Pulled From Cemeteries
A group of congressmen has asked the Department of Veterans Affairs to reconsider its ban on the flag-folding ceremony at military funerals after the agency decided last month to streamline burials at federal cemeteries.

"The flag folding recitation is a longstanding tradition which brings comfort to the living and honor to the deceased," Rep. Heath Shuler, D-N.C., writes in his letter Tuesday signed by 11 other congressmen. "The recitations accompanying each fold pay tribute to the service and sacrifice of our veterans and their families, the nation they proudly serve, and the beliefs that they hold dear."

Veterans Affairs made the new policy decision last month, after a complaint was filed to the White House, said Rees Lloyd, a member of the American Legion's Memorial Honor Detail for services at Riverside National Cemetery in California.

"To me, it's a slap in the face for every veteran, every member of the Memorial Honor Detail and every family of the deceased veteran," Lloyd said.

At issue are secondary meanings attached to the folding of the flag. As the honor guard makes the 13 folds — traditionally representing the original colonies — they recite "the first fold of our flag is a symbol of life, the second fold is a symbol of our belief in the eternal life, etc."

A complaint about the recitation for the 11th fold — "in the eyes of a Hebrew citizen, represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon, and glorifies, in their eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" — garnered a complaint and prompted the ban.

In a Sept. 27 memo, the National Cemetery Administration halted the ceremony. It was an effort to create uniform services throughout the military graveyard system, spokesman Mike Nacincik said.

But it's caused a furor among veterans. Members of the American Legion have been flooding national headquarters since the decision, according to Ramona Joyce, an organization spokeswoman.

"We definitely think is a matter left up to the families," she said. "It's a nice ceremony; we've been doing it for years. Our honor guards have been doing it.

"It's respectful and it's something the family should be able to choose to have done if they so wish for their veteran," Joyce said.

Nacincik said the 13-fold recital is not part of the U.S. Flag Code and is not government-approved.

"The entirety of this issue is an absurdity that shows political correctness and secular cleansing run amok," Lloyd said. "This is about families of deceased veterans putting to rest their loved ones. No one should interfere with their choices."

The 12th fold recitation is geared to Christians, saying the fold "represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in their eyes, God the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost."

In the Legion's burning ceremony for the dignified disposal of unserviceable flags, a chaplain invokes the name of God with lines like "as they yield their substance to the fire, may your holy light spread over us and bring our hearts renewed devotion to God and country," Joyce said.

"When we got back from the war, we didn't ask for a whole lot," said Bobby Castillo, 85, a World War II Navy veteran. "We just want to give our veterans the respect they deserve. No one has ever complained to us about it. I just don't understand."

Lloyd and Castillo are part of a 16-member detail that have performed military honors at more than 1,400 services. They were preparing to read the flag-folding remarks at the Riverside cemetery when graveyard staff stopped them.

Charlie Waters, parliamentarian for the American Legion of California, said he's advising memorial honor details to ignore the edict.

"This is nuts," Waters told the Press-Enterprise by telephone from Fresno. "There are 26 million veterans in this country and they're not going to take us all to prison."

Nacincik said that while the flag-folding narrative includes references to God that the government does not endorse, the main reason for the new rules is uniformity.

"We are looking at consistency," Nacincik said. "We think that's important."

Rabbi Yitzhak Miller of Temple Beth El said he understands the ban.

"It is a perfect example of government choosing to ignore religion in order to avoid offending some religions," Miller said. "To me, ignoring religion in general is just as problematic as endorsing any one religion."

Shuler's letter urged Veterans Affairs to change its mind.

"Please reconsider the policy and allow the Memorial Honor Detail volunteers to perform the traditional flag-folding recitation if requested by the family of the deceased," he wrote.

Lloyd said the honor guard would decide whether to defy the ban next Tuesday, when it will serve at more military funerals.

"We are going to abide by the wishes of the families," Lloyd said. "Not some bureaucrat in Washington, D.C. Period."
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:13 PM  
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American Legion backs it up as well . . .
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:44 PM  
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Here you go REDJEEPXJ . . . I ain't lying to ya . . . .

The official US Government stand on flag fold meanings . . . . and US Airforce (last two lines)
The meaning of a flagged draped coffin-official-us-gov-stand.jpg 

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Old 06-28-2011, 07:47 PM  
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still if the families want a religious funeral that isup to them, in these days of age having a religiously biased military is not just politically incorrect but a powderkeg waiting to explode, religion should play no factor in the government, history has shown that to be perfectly clear......

I find it Ironic when christians complain about islam but yet want to take every step towards turning america into a christian version of Iran/Pakistan/etc.


And Hihood, what that says is no official but that unofficial ceremonies exist, as long as they conform with the soldier before their death it's not a big deal, but if they are doing that by default then it IS a big deal.
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:59 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
still if the families want a religious funeral that isup to them, in these days of age having a religiously biased military is not just politically incorrect but a powderkeg waiting to explode, religion should play no factor in the government, history has shown that to be perfectly clear......

I find it Ironic when christians complain about islam but yet want to take every step towards turning america into a christian version of Iran/Pakistan/etc.


And Hihood, what that says is no official but that unofficial ceremonies exist, as long as they conform with the soldier before their death it's not a big deal, but if they are doing that by default then it IS a big deal.
and if YOU didn't want religion in it, that's your right as an American too,isn't it?. I personally have nothing against Islam itself, only the radicals flying airplanes. I don't believe our founding fathers wanted to stamp out religion, they were more after not letting Gov dictate your believes like some islamic and christian states do or did. I don't believe in drinking alcolholic beverages but I sure not running around trying to get liquor stores to pull down their signs.
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:46 PM  
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I am an honor guard bugler and have been playing Taps for 17 years. The words we utter are not beholden to the president, the congress or the DoD. We will continue to do our duty to please the family.

Just a clarification, a 21 gun salute is reserved for dignitaries and heads of state and a gun is a cannon. The military uses rifles and the firing detail is three riflemen firing three volleys. When specifically requested to have the rifles the Army National Guard furnishes a team, otherwise we use a shotgun to deliver the three volleys. Even though DoD will not substantiate this, it is my belief that rifle teams used to consist of seven riflemen out of deference to the 3x7=21. Just my thoughts but otherwise why the seven?
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:40 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHood View Post
Here you go REDJEEPXJ . . . I ain't lying to ya . . . .

The official US Government stand on flag fold meanings . . . . and US Airforce (last two lines)
The Air Force was first created in 1947. The Air Force Academy was created in 1954. There's a bit of a problem attributing it to both the founding fathers and a USAF chaplain. Even if we go back to the US Army Air Corp, that only takes us back to 1907.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie_T
The words we utter are not beholden to the president, the congress or the DoD. We will continue to do our duty to please the family.
This is as it should be. No, Congress and the founding fathers did not ascribe these meanings to this flag ceremony, but if that family does, and desires that an honor guard recognize these beliefs, that is entirely their prerogative. If the family wants the honor guard to participate in a New Orleans-style Jazz Funeral, or wants Amazing Grace played on the bag pipes instead of Taps, if there is any way to make it happen, we should make it happen. It's one of the few things we can do to demonstrate our gratitude for their sacrifice.

That said, as a former Air Force NCO, I would consider the religious tone a slap in the face to myself and any non-Christian serviceman, and any Christian serviceman who believes strongly that government should not be involved in religion.
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