Go Back   CityProfile.com Forum - Local City and State Discussion Forums > General Discussion > National Politics / Debate
Click Here to Login

Reply
Old 06-27-2011, 03:09 PM  
Senior Member

Bristol, Tennessee
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062 | Kudos: +48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
But does it work, is it working and is it really investment we are talking about in the US or just a spending spree?

Do the math, we have a debt that is beyond resolution and all government spending is doing is growing that debt. Private sector investing can grow the economy but government regulation and control causes investors to go to ground. Small business will not expand to the point of falling under Obamacare.
1.) that is why we need universal healthcare as our current system is designed to where companies are the ones to provide healthcare which is just a failure of an idea

2.) yes, it works for countries who adequately invest in themselves like germany which is doing very well relatively speaking despite their higher wages and multiples of vacation time over the u.s., they even have a strong manufacturing effort.

3.) In the u.s. we assume any regulation or taxes on business will hurt them which is not the case, I'm not saying tax them to death but considering they only get taxed on profits it's not like personal taxes where it's based on gross income so it creates a "use it to expand or lose it" type of situation - but I am sure someone will take this to the extreme and use it against me but I am speaking about small changes plus removing some tax breaks/loopholes to create fair and level taxing field.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 03:47 PM  
fustrated genius
 
HiHood's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,054 | Kudos: +100
What most of you obviously do not understand here is that the Dems and Reps did not do the right thing way back when. Bush, yes, is to blame by saving the banks,markets, etc., and not letting it fall flat on it's rear end. Then the next clown, Obama, followed suit and gave chase tossing tax payer's money into the bottomless pit. Here we are years later and LOOK at the prop'd up economy, it's STILL WOBBLING!!! The government/economy needs to collapse into bankruptsy/impass before it can TRULY begin to dig out of this mess. False propping will not work. GM/Chrysler etc., way back should have been let alone. The chain would have been swift, and the economy probably on the recover mode by now, instead, we are still fighting about it and we need now yet ANOTHER prop it or drop it and the Reps & Dems will point fingers back & forth about. It's ALL a bunch of BS gentlemen all they can do is their stupid "tis so" and "t'aint neither" crap back & forth. Our Gov needs some serious debt/budget corrections and the people at the reins are IDIOTS! Both Bushicans AND Obamacrats
__________________

__________________
Phewy!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 04:25 PM  
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,892 | Kudos: +92
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
1.) that is why we need universal healthcare as our current system is designed to where companies are the ones to provide healthcare which is just a failure of an idea

2.) yes, it works for countries who adequately invest in themselves like germany which is doing very well relatively speaking despite their higher wages and multiples of vacation time over the u.s., they even have a strong manufacturing effort.

3.) In the u.s. we assume any regulation or taxes on business will hurt them which is not the case, I'm not saying tax them to death but considering they only get taxed on profits it's not like personal taxes where it's based on gross income so it creates a "use it to expand or lose it" type of situation - but I am sure someone will take this to the extreme and use it against me but I am speaking about small changes plus removing some tax breaks/loopholes to create fair and level taxing field.
If you want to go the socialist nanny-state route. BTW taxes on businesses are hidden taxes they are passed on to the consumer.
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 04:37 PM  
mohel
 
blucher's Avatar

Keizer, OR
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,383 | Kudos: +123
Images: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
If you want to go the socialist nanny-state route. BTW taxes on businesses are hidden taxes they are passed on to the consumer.
If we could match Germany in economics we'd be way ahead of our present state. If your use of "nanny-state" means socialized healthcare like the other developed nations have I'm all for it.

There was nothing hidden about Bush's tax rebate of BILLIONS to BIG OIL. If we need to worry about hidden consumer costs nationalize the btards. OIL gave us Teapot Dome, much of the reason for the Great Depression and now Cheney handed them Clinton's surplus. Does it take a genius to see the thread of BIG OIL screwing this country? Exxon Valdez, Gulf Disaster and a lunatic in Alaska/Arizona screaming "Drill Baby Drill"!

While we're at it Nationalize Saudi oil too.
__________________
I'll believe corporations are persons when Texas executes one.: LBJ's Ghost
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 05:07 PM  
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,892 | Kudos: +92
Quote:
Originally Posted by blucher View Post
If we could match Germany in economics we'd be way ahead of our present state. If your use of "nanny-state" means socialized healthcare like the other developed nations have I'm all for it.

There was nothing hidden about Bush's tax rebate of BILLIONS to BIG OIL. If we need to worry about hidden consumer costs nationalize the btards. OIL gave us Teapot Dome, much of the reason for the Great Depression and now Cheney handed them Clinton's surplus. Does it take a genius to see the thread of BIG OIL screwing this country? Exxon Valdez, Gulf Disaster and a lunatic in Alaska/Arizona screaming "Drill Baby Drill"!

While we're at it Nationalize Saudi oil too.
Good men shed blood for our freedom, don't sell it out so easily.

Obama's at the wheel now forget the past and take a look at his record.
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 06:23 PM  
Senior Member

Bristol, Tennessee
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062 | Kudos: +48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
If you want to go the socialist nanny-state route. BTW taxes on businesses are hidden taxes they are passed on to the consumer.
again, you just don't get the difference between gross taxes and net taxes, while taxes are a factor you are overstating the case since the taxes are only on profit and consumers will buy at a specific price point, history has shown that your statement is false, look at the tax rates from 1950 to now on the rich, they have plummeted, now look at the middle class inflation adjusted, those values have also decreased, so why is there no correlation there?shouldn't all consumer staples be dirt cheap right now?
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 06:25 PM  
mohel
 
blucher's Avatar

Keizer, OR
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,383 | Kudos: +123
Images: 99
Good men shed blood for our freedom, don't sell it out so easily.
I'll bet you mean socialized medicine leads to the slippery slope of communism.

That was the boogie man we were raised to fear & hate but all it is is another economic system, not evil incarnate.

Capitalism has failed because people are greedy.
Communism has failed because people are lazy.

T'aint the "ISM's", it's the flaws in both systems.
Healthcare shouldn't be in the for profit category. It shouldn't have to pay for bad medicine, CYA testing or personal injury lawyers, just medicine.

If we eliminate the unnecessary costs and pick the best of European and Canadian approaches we can afford decent care for everyone.

Socialism doesn't seem useful on a national scale but neither does the unrestricted greed that got us into the recession. We may do better with a mix utilizing those things that work in both systems.

I should point out that the entire Cold War was a contest for market share so if good men died (and they did ) that's what their blood was spent on. The Capitalist world won and now those same greedy SOB's gave us a recession in celebration.

"Obama's at the wheel now forget the past and take a look at his record."
With or without the Rethuglicans blocking him at every turn?
__________________
I'll believe corporations are persons when Texas executes one.: LBJ's Ghost
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 06:41 PM  
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,892 | Kudos: +92
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
again, you just don't get the difference between gross taxes and net taxes, while taxes are a factor you are overstating the case since the taxes are only on profit and consumers will buy at a specific price point, history has shown that your statement is false, look at the tax rates from 1950 to now on the rich, they have plummeted, now look at the middle class inflation adjusted, those values have also decreased, so why is there no correlation there?shouldn't all consumer staples be dirt cheap right now?
Increase taxes and watch the prices increase, the rich pay taxes out of revenue. I recall a Reader's Digest article from years ago that showed all the costs of a ladies dress. The markups along the way included taxes and even shoplifting and sales.
Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2011, 09:54 PM  
Senior Member

Bristol, Tennessee
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062 | Kudos: +48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
Increase taxes and watch the prices increase, the rich pay taxes out of revenue. I recall a Reader's Digest article from years ago that showed all the costs of a ladies dress. The markups along the way included taxes and even shoplifting and sales.
yes, but corporations just pay on profits, and beyond that we have been reducing taxes for the wealthiest of americans for the last 50+ years, they are less then half what they were and the result is what? smaller middle class, weak manufacturing sector and no real income growth for non wealthy americans

your argument sounds great on paper but in the real world, with real people and real businesses it just doesn't happen that way.
Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 12:17 AM  
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,892 | Kudos: +92
When I was a democrat Sargent Shriver announced that we would win the war on poverty by 1976. I was a bit skeptical since in my personal life I was a debt free conservative. Well my skepticism proved to be well founded but I stuck with the party until I couldn't take the slaughter of the unborn any longer. I just couldn't see a compelling national interest in killing unborn babies so I left the party during the Clinton years. I confess that I was mostly voting for conservatives even though I was precinct secretary for the party. It also became clear to me that the party approach was that any candidate was OK as long as he was a democrat. I suspect republicans have a similar mindset but don't know as I have never participated. as an independent I am just looking for a pro-life candidate that has his/her head screwed on straight. Obama misses that on both counts and his record proves it. Sorry, those are just the facts. Socialism sounds sweet but freedom is too precious to toss to the winds. Wealth redistribution is but a form of socialism and those doing the redistribution have the power and take their cut and perks off the top. Whichever party is in power we need to hold them accountable. Spending cuts are the answer not increased taxes. Increased taxes would enable all those who keep on spending below the radar. My blue dog congressman is introducing a bill to research devices to prevent a drunk from starting his car. Sounds good on paper but whatever it costs will have that dreaded 41 cents on the dollar of borrowed money. We just can't keep going down this path.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   CityProfile.com Forum - Local City and State Discussion Forums > General Discussion > National Politics / Debate
Bookmark this Page!

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Suggested Threads

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.