Go Back   CityProfile.com Forum - Local City and State Discussion Forums > General Discussion > National Politics / Debate
Click Here to Login

Reply
Old 08-06-2011, 09:52 AM  
Member

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 44 | Kudos: +11
That was a dual effort going back to the Reagan administration (basically greenspan to present) to spend a ton of money and not pay the tab.

I think the last bill was appalling. If you read the S&P report they pretty explicitly lay out the downgrade as a failure to raise taxes (or let the bush tax cuts expire) and raise revenue. "you cut entitlement spending. big whoop. now raise your tax revenue." Is the gist of it.

http://www.standardandpoors.com/serv...ervalue3=UTF-8

That's the report.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2011, 11:35 AM  
Senior Member

Kent, Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,237 | Kudos: +67
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsocc View Post
That was a dual effort going back to the Reagan administration (basically greenspan to present) to spend a ton of money and not pay the tab.

I think the last bill was appalling. If you read the S&P report they pretty explicitly lay out the downgrade as a failure to raise taxes (or let the bush tax cuts expire) and raise revenue. "you cut entitlement spending. big whoop. now raise your tax revenue." Is the gist of it.

http://www.standardandpoors.com/serv...ervalue3=UTF-8

That's the report.
I came away from that report with a slightly different understanding. The biggest problem seems to be that the process has become overly politicized, to the point that even paying our current bills was a fight.

One part of one house of one branch of government decided to throw a temper tantrum and refuse to cooperate unless everyone did what they wanted. Unlike the parent of an insolent toddler, the rest of the government couldn't bend the spoiled brats over their knees and tan their hides.

These children embarrassed us in the grocery store by throwing a fit in the cereal aisle. They got us so flustered and frustrated that we left without half the things on our list. Hopefully, the next time we go shopping, we'll have the good sense to leave them at home.
__________________

__________________
We work together every damn day. --Jon Stewart
Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2011, 01:27 PM  
Member

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 44 | Kudos: +11
I totally agree. The new tea party handicapped the process by signing pledges never to raise taxes ever. From a governance perspective it's fundamentally flawed to remove the tool to generate revenue.
Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2011, 10:12 AM  
mohel
 
blucher's Avatar

Keizer, OR
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,383 | Kudos: +123
Images: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsocc View Post
I totally agree. The new tea party handicapped the process by signing pledges never to raise taxes ever. From a governance perspective it's fundamentally flawed to remove the tool to generate revenue.
If you have a debt problem you get a 2nd job to pay it off. If you're a country you cut back and increase taxes. The Standard & Poors rating fell because of the lack of increased tax revenue.
__________________
I'll believe corporations are persons when Texas executes one.: LBJ's Ghost
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 06:47 AM  
Senior Member

Greenville, SC
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,141 | Kudos: +188
Quote:
Originally Posted by blucher View Post
If you have a debt problem you get a 2nd job to pay it off. If you're a country you cut back and increase taxes. The Standard & Poors rating fell because of the lack of increased tax revenue.
Had there been more immediate cuts, the lack of "increased revenue" would have been irrelevant.
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 08:59 AM  
Senior Member

Bristol, Tennessee
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,062 | Kudos: +48
Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
Had there been more immediate cuts, the lack of "increased revenue" would have been irrelevant.
so if the republicans were immediatly given everything they wanted and the democrats just bowed everything would be fine..... that goes both ways, we could have also just raised taxes and not cut a single thing, but politics is about compromise and the republicans refused to do so until the very last moment and even then the democrats compromised away far more then republicans did, even boehner claimed the republicans got 98% of what they wanted, does that sound like a "compromise" in a nearly equally divided government?

they played chicken to keep the rich from having to have any even slight pain from this situation while demanding the little people, the working poor, do pay. This will hurt the middle class and that will in turn hurt the economy. The republicans don't care about a recovery, they want failure in order to try and make obama look bad.
__________________
Please help babies...... http://www.intactamerica.org/
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 10:01 AM  
Senior Member

Kent, Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,237 | Kudos: +67
The stated reason was this:

Quote:
We lowered our long-term rating on the U.S. because we believe that the prolonged controversy over raising the statutory debt ceiling and the related fiscal policy debate indicate that further near-term progress containing the growth in public spending, especially on entitlements, or on reaching an agreement on raising revenues is less likely than we previously assumed and will remain a contentious and fitful process. We also believe that the fiscal consolidation plan that Congress and the Administration agreed to this week falls short of the amount that we believe is necessary to stabilize the general government debt burden by the middle of the decade.
(emphasis mine)

The problem isn't that tax revenue wasn't raised, nor spending cut. The problem was that what should have been a relatively simple, procedural vote was turned into a political quagmire. The problem was that someone decided that economic stability should be used to gain political leverage.

Well, it worked.

And a couple days after these nitwits were gloating about how happy they were with the deal, S&P spoke up with a message that needed to be said, but that nobody wanted to hear. A message that the American people have been repeating since this crap started, as evidenced by the poll figures on the question "who is responsible for the debt ceiling crisis?" placing the blame squarely on conservative shoulders.

That message was this: We don't want a repeat of this bull****. We don't want long-term economic stability used as a tool to leverage short-term political gains. We didn't want it in April, when this issue came over the horizon. We didn't want it in July, when it finally came to a head and forced Congress to act.

Teapublicans didn't want to listen to the American people when they sent this message. Teapublicans blatantly ignored that message when it was delivered by the people. They didn't listen to the ratings agencies when they reported on July 25th that Boehner's plans would lead to a downgrade.

John Boehner got 98% of what he wanted. Mitch McConnell vowed a repeat of the same tactic in the future:

Well, Boehner, McConnell, Republicans, and especially Tea Party representatives, now that the Corporate overlords have spoken, showing their "approval" of your negotiating tactic with the second largest stock market drop in history and repeating the same message delivered to you by the American people over the past 4 months, are you finally going to listen? Or will it take recall elections to make it happen?
__________________
We work together every damn day. --Jon Stewart
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 10:17 AM  
Senior Member
 
havasu's Avatar

California
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,747 | Kudos: +238
Images: 17
I find it ironic that one of the biggest factors in the credit rating change was not mentioned much in the above posts.
"especially on entitlements"
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 10:23 AM  
Member

Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 44 | Kudos: +11
Because it wasn't pertinent to the rest of his post?
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2011, 10:27 AM  
Senior Member
 
havasu's Avatar

California
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,747 | Kudos: +238
Images: 17
I was referring to R/A's bold type he added for his own emphasis on a quote.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   CityProfile.com Forum - Local City and State Discussion Forums > General Discussion > National Politics / Debate
Bookmark this Page!

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Suggested Threads

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.