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Old 07-14-2012, 06:04 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
how terrible to make everyone pay for their own healthcare if they can afford it, terrible I say.
And even if they can pay cash, tax the suckers for doing so!
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:51 PM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
And even if they can pay cash, tax the suckers for doing so!
Actually, that's one part of it that I think should be adopted. You can satisfy your auto-insurance requirement by showing proof that you've bonded that amount of money. Here, if you bond $10,000 for liability, you don't have to purchase car insurance.

Of course, health insurance is different, and can cover a huge dollar amount. Millions of dollars in some cases. It doesn't make sense to force people to bond the total amount, but there's room for high-deductible policies. If I want to bond $10,000 toward a high deductible, I should be able to pay a low premium for coverage beyond that 10k and have the combination of that bond and that policy fulfill the requirements for that tax credit.

Or 20k and an even lower premium. Or 500k and a miniscule fee for a premium for coverage beyond 500k.

I'd gladly put up $5000 or $10000 in self-insurance for a lower premium payment.
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Old 07-15-2012, 07:57 AM  
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What irks me is they have everyone arguing about how to pay for high healthcare costs while NOTHING is being done to bring costs down.....which is the only real long term solution.
Unless someone here really thinks Government run programs work...in which case I would like to know....What solar system are you from?

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775. You have had 234 years to get it right and it is broke.

Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 74 years to get it right and it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938. You have had 71 years to get it right and it is broke.

War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 45 years to get it right; > $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor" and they only want more.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. You have had 44 years to get it right and they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970. You have had 39 years to get it right and it is broke.

The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. You had 32 years to get it right and it is an abysmal failure.

You have FAILED in every "government service" you have shoved down our throats while overspending our tax dollars.
YOU WANT AMERICANS TO BELIEVE YOU CAN BE TRUSTED WITH A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM??
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Old 07-15-2012, 08:16 AM  
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No one has said to my knowledge they don't Want to pay for their own healthcare...that is just BS and a distraction. What we need is affordable healthcare and a Government run program will not provide it. We need an end to frivolous lawsuits and open up interstate competition to start with. Get the illegals off the dole and out of this country that are overloading the system.
People need to see a family doctor for healthcare not run to the ER. There are many things like this that can be done that will result in lower costs. You don't need insurance to cover a 35 to 50 dollar visit to a family doctor for a cold. You do need it for a 500 dollar visit to an ER for a cold. I don't go to a doctor at all for a cold...I go to the drug store. But you want me to pay for you to go? To pay for your aids treatment because you choose a decadent lifestyle? To pay so you can kill your child? Come and get my money for that....I will be here waiting.
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Old 07-15-2012, 06:06 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadarrows View Post
What irks me is they have everyone arguing about how to pay for high healthcare costs while NOTHING is being done to bring costs down.....which is the only real long term solution.
Unless someone here really thinks Government run programs work...in which case I would like to know....What solar system are you from?

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775. You have had 234 years to get it right and it is broke.
USPS was forced in 2006 to pre-fund an additional 75 years of retirement benefits for its employees, and was given just 10 years to raise that money. This amounts to $5.5 billion per year for that 10 years.

Under current legislative rules, the USPS will have a maximum debt of around $10 billion in 2016, which will take them just 2 years to completely erase.

The postal service *isn't* broke.


Quote:
Social Security was established in 1935. You have had 74 years to get it right and it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938. You have had 71 years to get it right and it is broke.

War on Poverty started in 1964. You have had 45 years to get it right; > $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor" and they only want more.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965. You have had 44 years to get it right and they are broke.

Freddie Mac was established in 1970. You have had 39 years to get it right and it is broke.

The Department of Energy was created in 1977 to lessen our dependence on foreign oil. It has ballooned to 16,000 employees with a budget of $24 billion a year and we import more oil than ever before. You had 32 years to get it right and it is an abysmal failure.

You have FAILED in every "government service" you have shoved down our throats while overspending our tax dollars.
YOU WANT AMERICANS TO BELIEVE YOU CAN BE TRUSTED WITH A GOVERNMENT-RUN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM??
I'd go and point out the flaws in each and every one of your examples, but I don't need to: the final statement you made assumes a government-run healthcare system. We don't have a government-run healthcare system. That's the entire point of the individual mandate: require every individual to purchase health insurance from a private company. The government isn't paying the bills, nor is it providing health care.
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Old 07-15-2012, 09:02 PM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
USPS was forced in 2006 to pre-fund an additional 75 years of retirement benefits for its employees, and was given just 10 years to raise that money. This amounts to $5.5 billion per year for that 10 years.

Under current legislative rules, the USPS will have a maximum debt of around $10 billion in 2016, which will take them just 2 years to completely erase.

The postal service *isn't* broke.




I'd go and point out the flaws in each and every one of your examples, but I don't need to: the final statement you made assumes a government-run healthcare system. We don't have a government-run healthcare system. That's the entire point of the individual mandate: require every individual to purchase health insurance from a private company. The government isn't paying the bills, nor is it providing health care.
"Our situation is extremely serious, the postmaster general, Patrick R. Donahoe, said in an interview. ?If Congress doesn?t act, we will default.?

In recent weeks, Mr. Donahoe has been pushing a series of painful cost-cutting measures to erase the agency?s deficit, which will reach $9.2 billion this fiscal year. They include eliminating Saturday mail delivery, closing up to 3,700 postal locations and laying off 120,000 workers ? nearly one-fifth of the agency?s work force ? despite a no-layoffs clause in the unions? contracts.

The post office?s problems stem from one hard reality: it is being squeezed on both revenue and costs.

As any computer user knows, the Internet revolution has led to people and businesses sending far less conventional mail."



$9.2 billion deficit. The postmaster was lying?...What? Sounds broke to me. If you can find fault with what else I said put your print where your mouth is. As for Government run health care....they make the rules it's their game...deal with it. You want to get tricky with technicalities ...go play in the street...you are not going to play me.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:39 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadarrows

"Our situation is extremely serious, the postmaster general, Patrick R. Donahoe, said in an interview. “If Congress doesn’t act, we will default.”

In recent weeks, Mr. Donahoe has been pushing a series of painful cost-cutting measures to erase the agency’s deficit, which will reach $9.2 billion this fiscal year. They include eliminating Saturday mail delivery, closing up to 3,700 postal locations and laying off 120,000 workers — nearly one-fifth of the agency’s work force — despite a no-layoffs clause in the unions’ contracts.

The post office’s problems stem from one hard reality: it is being squeezed on both revenue and costs.

As any computer user knows, the Internet revolution has led to people and businesses sending far less conventional mail."



$9.2 billion deficit. The postmaster was lying?...What? Sounds broke to me. If you can find fault with what else I said put your print where your mouth is. As for Government run health care....they make the rules it's their game...deal with it. You want to get tricky with technicalities ...go play in the street...you are not going to play me.
Citation, please. I don't doubt that the postmaster general said those words, but you do us a disservice by not providing the full context.

The USPS's debt is what I said it was: the arbitrary requirement to pre-fund 75 years of employee retirement benefits.

Look up the stats on postal use. All the rhetoric that the internet is killing the postal service contradicts the facts: the USPS is handling more mail than ever, including local delivery services for FedEx, UPS, and several other private parcel delivery services.
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:48 AM  
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While lawmakers continue to fight over how to fix the ailing U.S. Postal Service, the agency's money problems are only growing worse.

The Postal Service repeated on Wednesday that without congressional action, it will default—a first in its long history, a spokesman said—on a legally required annual $5.5 billion payment, due Aug. 1, into a health-benefits fund for future retirees. Action in Congress isn't likely, as the House prepares to leave for its August recess.

The agency said a default on the payment, for 2011, wouldn't directly affect service or its ability to pay employees and suppliers. But "these ongoing liquidity issues unnecessarily undermine confidence in the viability of the Postal Service among our customers," said spokesman David Partenheimer.

The agency says it will default on its 2012 retiree health payment as well—also roughly $5.5 billion, due Sept. 30—if there is no legislative action by then.


Most everyone agrees the Postal Service needs an overhaul. It had a loss of $3.2 billion in the second quarter of this fiscal year; it is to report third-quarter results on Aug. 9. The agency blames factors including declining mail volumes and the unusual 2006 mandate by Congress that it annually set aside billions for future retirees. But while the Senate has passed legislation to overhaul the agency, the House says it doesn't expect to take up its own proposal until after August.

You do us a disservice by being full of ****.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:41 AM  
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And just how broke might the USPS be if all unfunded liability is taken into account, or for that matter the US Government?
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Old 07-19-2012, 07:42 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leadarrows
While lawmakers continue to fight over how to fix the ailing U.S. Postal Service, the agency's money problems are only growing worse.

The Postal Service repeated on Wednesday that without congressional action, it will default—a first in its long history, a spokesman said—on a legally required annual $5.5 billion payment, due Aug. 1, into a health-benefits fund for future retirees. Action in Congress isn't likely, as the House prepares to leave for its August recess.

The agency said a default on the payment, for 2011, wouldn't directly affect service or its ability to pay employees and suppliers. But "these ongoing liquidity issues unnecessarily undermine confidence in the viability of the Postal Service among our customers," said spokesman David Partenheimer.

The agency says it will default on its 2012 retiree health payment as well—also roughly $5.5 billion, due Sept. 30—if there is no legislative action by then.

Most everyone agrees the Postal Service needs an overhaul. It had a loss of $3.2 billion in the second quarter of this fiscal year; it is to report third-quarter results on Aug. 9. The agency blames factors including declining mail volumes and the unusual 2006 mandate by Congress that it annually set aside billions for future retirees. But while the Senate has passed legislation to overhaul the agency, the House says it doesn't expect to take up its own proposal until after August.

You do us a disservice by being full of ****.
Everything you just said is exactly what I said. The postal service is currently 1 year behind in pre-funding 75 years of its future retirement benefits. Best estimates are that it will take approximately 12 years to complete this new pre-funding requirement and remain in the black; congress gave them 10 years to do it. At the end of that 12 years, they will no longer have that 5.5 billion/year expense on their budget.

That is what the postmaster general said, that is the truth. Look it up. Look up the cause of the postal service's debt instead of repeating these half-truths.
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