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Old 06-30-2012, 12:27 AM  
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Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
Obama as a Joker and all the racist crap and stupidity.
For once, I agree with you!
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:41 AM  
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Yeah but but.......... Really? Ahhh thanks Mark.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:52 AM  
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We still love ya kiddo!
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Old 06-30-2012, 08:27 AM  
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We still love ya kiddo!
Bless you, child. You're the best. You and Alex Wonder what happened to little hitler?
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:19 PM  
Ric
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heres a serious question, lets say that someone is making minimun wage, and honestly can not afford heath care, they ARE living paycheck to paycheck, so from my understanding, if they do not, buy, healthcare, that person will be "fined" remember they are living check to check, what if they do not pay the "fine" or get any money back from the income taxes, what then ???

Do they get arrested ? whats going to happen to someone that honestly can not afford healthcare ?

On another note, I dont understand how our government can legally tell us, that we "have" to pay for health ins. I do understand about auto ins., if you are going to drive a car on a public street, you have to have auto ins.
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:30 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric View Post
heres a serious question, lets say that someone is making minimun wage, and honestly can not afford heath care, they ARE living paycheck to paycheck, so from my understanding, if they do not, buy, healthcare, that person will be "fined" remember they are living check to check, what if they do not pay the "fine" or get any money back from the income taxes, what then ???

Do they get arrested ? whats going to happen to someone that honestly can not afford healthcare ?

On another note, I dont understand how our government can legally tell us, that we "have" to pay for health ins. I do understand about auto ins., if you are going to drive a car on a public street, you have to have auto ins.
There are many of us asking the same questions. No one is answering, tho.
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:39 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ric View Post
heres a serious question, lets say that someone is making minimun wage, and honestly can not afford heath care, they ARE living paycheck to paycheck, so from my understanding, if they do not, buy, healthcare, that person will be "fined" remember they are living check to check, what if they do not pay the "fine" or get any money back from the income taxes, what then ???

Do they get arrested ? whats going to happen to someone that honestly can not afford healthcare ?
Good questions. No, they won't be arrested as it's not really a "fine" or a "penalty". It's perfectly legal to refuse to purchase insurance. You can pay the assessed tax instead.

A very brief summary taken from http://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/i...nsibility.html (Emphasis mine):
Quote:
Originally Posted by healthcare.gov
Under the Affordable Care Act, starting in 2014, you must be enrolled in a health insurance plan that meets basic minimum standards. If you aren't, you may be required to pay an assessment. You won't have to pay an assessment if you have very low income and coverage is unaffordable to you, or for other reasons including your religious beliefs. You can also apply for a waiver asking not to pay an assessment if you don't qualify automatically.
Some slightly more in-depth points from http://www.healthcare.gov/law/timeline/full.html:
Quote:
Originally Posted by healthcare.gov

Making Care More Affordable. Tax credits to make it easier for the middle class to afford insurance will become available for people with income between 100% and 400% of the poverty line who are not eligible for other affordable coverage. (In 2010, 400% of the poverty line comes out to about $43,000 for an individual or $88,000 for a family of four.) The tax credit is advanceable, so it can lower your premium payments each month, rather than making you wait for tax time. It?s also refundable, so even moderate-income families can receive the full benefit of the credit. These individuals may also qualify for reduced cost-sharing (copayments, co-insurance, and deductibles). Effective January 1, 2014.
The answer to your question is that there are subsidies to help the poor afford insurance, and the "penalty" for not purchasing insurance is lower - or non-existent - for the very poor.

One other important point is that the cost of premiums should drop significantly for several reasons, the most important being that the average health of insured individuals will increase due to a massive influx of generally healthy people purchasing insurance. There is also a limit on the amount of money an insurance company can scrape off for administration instead of benefit payments. At least 85% of all premiums collected must be paid in benefits. You'll receive a refund if they fail to spend at least that much on benefits.

Quote:
On another note, I dont understand how our government can legally tell us, that we "have" to pay for health ins. I do understand about auto ins., if you are going to drive a car on a public street, you have to have auto ins.
That was the exact question before the supreme court. The answer is that congress has the constitutional authority to lay taxes for pretty much any reason they deem necessary. The supreme court looked at the ACA a little differently than how it was described by lawmakers. They basically decided that the ACA is equivalent to congress assessing a new tax on every last person in the country. And it does: If nobody chose to purchase health insurance, every one of us would be assessed a tax. Under the SCOTUS view, Congress simply also provided a tax credit for anyone who chose to purchase insurance.
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Old 07-01-2012, 10:53 AM  
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A couple of facts for discussion.

There will still be 27 million uninsured.

It is estimated that it will cost employers $1.79 per employee hour to provide the mandated insurance.

How many minimum wage jobs will disappear?
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Old 07-01-2012, 11:41 AM  
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Originally Posted by samfloor View Post
I guess we must vote Reublican to repeal this law. The scary part is, much of this was based on the insurance plan Romney pushed through as governor.
they won't repeal it either, it will become too much of an issue as they will be taking away people's coverage, they will put ona dog and pony show but in the end, obamacare will remain, afterall obamacare is just nationwide romneycare

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Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
I'll stick with Obama thank you. Romney would simply contrinue to screw the poor while giving to the rich which is exactly what people like E T want. Anyone who lives on a small forum such as this, trolling and pitching crap, just to raise hackle feathers from people who live in actual reality obviously doesn't actually work for a living. Life at the golf course country club must be grand!
not just poor, but middle class, all of these flat tax proposals from republicans would roughly double taxes for anyone making the median wage or less

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Originally Posted by samfloor View Post
Yeah right, I have been a flooring installer for 40 years. Guarantee you I don't belong to a country club. And I have always voted democratic for president. I just don't think Obama is doing a good job, but really don't like Romney either. I just can't see how Obamacare will help anyone.
considering the mess we have been in I think he has done a lot, especially with the republicans actively working to make him fail with tactics that have not been used before (threatening to let our country default for example)

so obama can't spend any money to stimulate the economy because bush spent a lot on bailing people out in his last year that gets attributed to obama, and the republican motto is less regulation, turn us into china environment wise

Quote:
Originally Posted by wild View Post
Until a certain age - Page 272. Section 1145: Cancer hospital will ration care according to the patient's age.
these are some great republican agenda falsifications, not going to discredit the whole list, just a few to show the overstatements. I bet anything wild did not even read the ACA, just found a post listing these on the net and did no research of his own
Quote:



Of course, it's free!
Oh, don't forget these little gems:

Page 50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all non-U.S. Residents, even if they are here illegally.

Page 58 and 59: The government will have real-time access to an individual's bank account and will have the authority to make electronic fund transfers from those accounts.
Prime example, the actual wording states a person may CHOOSE to allow direct debit (like a check) in place of using credit cards so people can sign up for healthcare without using a credit card or needing cash - again it is a choice and a prime falsification from the right

Quote:

Page 65/section 164: The plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all union members, union retirees and for community organizations (such as the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now - ACORN).

Page 203/line 14-15: The tax imposed under this section will not be treated as a tax. (How could anybody in their right mind come up with that?)

Page 241 and 253: Doctors will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and the government will set all doctors' fees.
doctors are still private and can work as such, the ACA just sets reimbursement amounts, the same as ANY insurer does
Quote:
Page 317 and 321: The government will impose a prohibition on hospital expansion; however, communities may petition for an exception.

Page 425, line 4-12: The government mandates advance-care planning consultations. Those on Social Security will be required to attend an "end-of-life planning" seminar every five years. (Death counseling..)
oooooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no,
I thought we were past death panel nonsense

this saves money and gets the patient what they want, everyone wins.
These encourage people to state their wishes (whether they want every attempt to save them or let them pass) most people say they want to die when there is no quality of life just to let them go, but many end up being kept alive by machines in pain because they never had this discussion with their doctor.
Quote:
Page 429, line 13-25: The government will specify which doctors can write an end-of-life order.

Many if not most companies with 50 employees or more will "Opt Out" of the plan and just pay the fine leaving people like me holding the bag. My family and I won't be able to afford the plan or the fine.
and as of today there is no requirement the company give you any healthcare, now they have MORE incentive to provide healthcare because of the fine, you realize that right?



Quote:
Originally Posted by samfloor View Post
A couple of facts for discussion.

There will still be 27 million uninsured.

It is estimated that it will cost employers $1.79 per employee hour to provide the mandated insurance.

How many minimum wage jobs will disappear?
can't really be a fact when it is an assumption or estimate, could say it is a fact that someone estimated this, but that is it
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Old 07-01-2012, 01:24 PM  
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It's bad enough to pay tax on a commodity, but a tax on a "non-purchase" is a whole 'nother story.
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