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Old 05-01-2011, 03:03 PM  
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Originally Posted by blucher View Post
"I just think that he isn't TOTALLY against high prices due to the green energy initiative."

Makes little sense. We have disappearing islands in the Marshalls, a North Pole you can reach by kayak and glaciers to wave goodbye to.

High gas prices put money in Big Oil's wallet which is then given to conservative Climate Change deniers. I know a fair number of Greenies and never heard that idea from any of them. If it's a bad thing blame Obama won't fly except with the tea bags.
You do know that global warming has been collectively disproved by the scientific community, right? There's absolutely zero evidence. I thought people were already past this...

Even before the gas prices, democrats got crushed in the mid-terms. So if by the "tea bags", you're referring to the entire country being fed up with big government, then yes, you're absolutely right.
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:17 PM  
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Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
You do know that global warming has been collectively disproved by the scientific community, right? There's absolutely zero evidence. I thought people were already past this...

Even before the gas prices, democrats got crushed in the mid-terms. So if by the "tea bags", you're referring to the entire country being fed up with big government, then yes, you're absolutely right.
and you got this load from........? Climate change has been VERY widely accepted across the scientific community (except scientists funded by oil companies of course)

http://royalsociety.org/uploadedFile...d_fictions.pdf
Quote:
In the journal Science in 2004, Oreskes published the results of a survey of 928 papers on climate
change published in peer-reviewed journals between 1993 and 2003. She found that three-quarters of
the papers either explicitly or implicitly accepted the view expressed in the IPCC 2001 report that
human activities have had a major impact on climate change in the last 50 years

Oh, and just out of curiosity, what WOULD convince you that global warming exists? Or are you set in that position regardless of any evidence. And not just a vague answer of "I would want to see compelling evidence) what would be compelling enough for you to believe it?
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:16 AM  
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This is one of my favorites...



TEN MYTHS of Global Warming



MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate.

FACT: Accurate satellite, balloon and mountain top observations made over the last three decades have not shown any significant change in the long term rate of increase in global temperatures. Average ground station readings do show a mild warming of 0.6 to 0.8Cover the last 100 years, which is well within the natural variations recorded in the last millennium. The ground station network suffers from an uneven distribution across the globe; the stations are preferentially located in growing urban and industrial areas ("heat islands"), which show substantially higher readings than adjacent rural areas ("land use effects").

There has been no catastrophic warming recorded.


MYTH 2: The "hockey stick" graph proves that the earth has experienced a steady, very gradual temperature increase for 1000 years, then recently began a sudden increase.

FACT: Significant changes in climate have continually occurred throughout geologic time. For instance, the Medieval Warm Period, from around 1000 to1200 AD (when the Vikings farmed on Greenland) was followed by a period known as the Little Ice Age. Since the end of the 17th Century the "average global temperature" has been rising at the low steady rate mentioned above; although from 1940 – 1970 temperatures actually dropped, leading to a Global Cooling scare.

The "hockey stick", a poster boy of both the UN's IPCC and Canada's Environment Department, ignores historical recorded climatic swings, and has now also been proven to be flawed and statistically unreliable as well. It is a computer construct and a faulty one at that.



MYTH 3: Human produced carbon dioxide has increased over the last 100 years, adding to the Greenhouse effect, thus warming the earth.

FACT: Carbon dioxide levels have indeed changed for various reasons, human and otherwise, just as they have throughout geologic time. Since the beginning of the industrial revolution, the CO2 content of the atmosphere has increased. The RATE of growth during this period has also increased from about 0.2% per year to the present rate of about 0.4% per year,which growth rate has now been constant for the past 25 years. However, there is no proof that CO2 is the main driver of global warming. As measured in ice cores dated over many thousands of years, CO2 levels move up and down AFTER the temperature has done so, and thus are the RESULT OF, NOT THE CAUSE of warming. Geological field work in recent sediments confirms this causal relationship. There is solid evidence that, as temperatures move up and down naturally and cyclically through solar radiation, orbital and galactic influences, the warming surface layers of the earth's oceans expel more CO2 as a result.



MYTH 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas.
FACT: Greenhouse gases form about 3 % of the atmosphere by volume. They consist of varying amounts, (about 97%) of water vapour and clouds, with the remainder being gases like CO2, CH4, Ozone and N2O, of which carbon dioxide is the largest amount. Hence, CO2 constitutes about 0.037% of the atmosphere. While the minor gases are more effective as "greenhouse agents" than water vapour and clouds, the latter are overwhelming the effect by their sheer volume and – in the end – are thought to be responsible for 60% of the "Greenhouse effect".

Those attributing climate change to CO2 rarely mention this important fact.


MYTH 5: Computer models verify that CO2 increases will cause significant global warming.

FACT: Computer models can be made to "verify" anything by changing some of the 5 million input parameters or any of a multitude of negative and positive feedbacks in the program used.. They do not "prove" anything. Also, computer models predicting global warming are incapable of properly including the effects of the sun, cosmic rays and the clouds. The sun is a major cause of temperature variation on the earth surface as its received radiation changes all the time, This happens largely in cyclical fashion. The number and the lengths in time of sunspots can be correlated very closely with average temperatures on earth, e.g. the Little Ice Age and the Medieval Warm Period. Varying intensity of solar heat radiation affects the surface temperature of the oceans and the currents. Warmer ocean water expels gases, some of which are CO2. Solar radiation interferes with the cosmic ray flux, thus influencing the amount ionized nuclei which control cloud cover.

MYTH 6: The UN proved that man–made CO2 causes global warming.

FACT: In a 1996 report by the UN on global warming, two statements were deleted from the final draft. Here they are:
1) “None of the studies cited above has shown clear evidence that we can attribute the observed climate changes to increases in greenhouse gases.”
2) “No study to date has positively attributed all or part of the climate change to man–made causes”

To the present day there is still no scientific proof that man-made CO2 causes significant global warming.


MYTH 7: CO2 is a pollutant.
FACT: This is absolutely not true. Nitrogen forms 80% of our atmosphere. We could not live in 100% nitrogen either. Carbon dioxide is no more a pollutant than nitrogen is. CO2 is essential to life on earth. It is necessary for plant growth since increased CO2 intake as a result of increased atmospheric concentration causes many trees and other plants to grow more vigorously. Unfortunately, the Canadian Government has included CO2 with a number of truly toxic and noxious substances listed by the Environmental Protection Act, only as their means to politically control it.


MYTH 8: Global warming will cause more storms and other weather extremes.

FACT: There is no scientific or statistical evidence whatsoever that supports such claims on a global scale. Regional variations may occur. Growing insurance and infrastructure repair costs, particularly in coastal areas, are sometimes claimed to be the result of increasing frequency and severity of storms, whereas in reality they are a function of increasing population density, escalating development value, and ever more media reporting.


MYTH 9: Receding glaciers and the calving of ice shelves are proof of global warming.

FACT: Glaciers have been receding and growing cyclically for hundreds of years. Recent glacier melting is a consequence of coming out of the very cool period of the Little Ice Age. Ice shelves have been breaking off for centuries. Scientists know of at least 33 periods of glaciers growing and then retreating. It’s normal. Besides, glacier's health is dependent as much on precipitation as on temperature.


MYTH 10: The earth’s poles are warming; polar ice caps are breaking up and melting and the sea level rising.

FACT: The earth is variable. The western Arctic may be getting somewhat warmer, due to unrelated cyclic events in the Pacific Ocean, but the Eastern Arctic and Greenland are getting colder. The small Palmer Peninsula of Antarctica is getting warmer, while the main Antarctic continent is actually cooling. Ice thicknesses are increasing both on Greenland and in Antarctica.

Sea level monitoring in the Pacific (Tuvalu) and Indian Oceans (Maldives) has shown no sign of any sea level rise.
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Old 05-02-2011, 06:35 AM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
Oh, and just out of curiosity, what WOULD convince you that global warming exists? Or are you set in that position regardless of any evidence. And not just a vague answer of "I would want to see compelling evidence) what would be compelling enough for you to believe it?
Sorry for hijacking the thread but I just threw up in my mouth from the hypocritical approach of this infantile argument basis. This same retort is disallowed because of it lunacy on other threads of this forum. It's worded differently as in....Oh, and just out of curiosity, what WOULD convince you that God exists? Or are you set in that position regardless of any evidence. And not just a vague answer of "I would want to see compelling evidence) what would be compelling enough for you to believe it?

Ooooh, the self righteous illiterate web we weave!
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:12 AM  
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Originally Posted by Hillman View Post
Sorry for hijacking the thread but I just threw up in my mouth from the hypocritical approach of this infantile argument basis. This same retort is disallowed because of it lunacy on other threads of this forum. It's worded differently as in....Oh, and just out of curiosity, what WOULD convince you that God exists? Or are you set in that position regardless of any evidence. And not just a vague answer of "I would want to see compelling evidence) what would be compelling enough for you to believe it?

Ooooh, the self righteous illiterate web we weave!
no, it's a simple question, how much warming of the entire planets average temperature over the long term above the historical average would be needed?

It's not a matter of mythological beings that by definition can't be seen or interacted with in any meaningful way. This is something that can be measured using this device called a thermometer, And we can combine that with both historical readings and historical carbon dioxide levels. so until we come up with a godometer to measure god then your statement is absurdly ridiculous. We can and have measured global warming, that's not even debatable, the readings say it is true, what may be debated is the effect human's have on it, and since the industrial revolution we have seen temperatures rise much faster then before
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:23 PM  
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See post # 23...........

...or is it mythical and not exist?

Is Forrest Gump in the house???
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:40 PM  
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Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
This is one of my favorites...
TEN MYTHS of Global Warming
HTML Code:
http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:55 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
and you got this load from........? Climate change has been VERY widely accepted across the scientific community (except scientists funded by oil companies of course)

Or are you set in that position regardless of any evidence. And not just a vague answer of "I would want to see compelling evidence) what would be compelling enough for you to believe it?
I doubt it.


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Kyoto Protocol
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Kyoto Protocol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The Kyoto Protocol is a protocol to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC or FCCC), aimed at fighting global warming. The UNFCCC is an international environmental treaty with the goal of achieving the "stabilization of greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere at a level that would prevent dangerous anthropogenic interference with the climate system."[1]
The Protocol was initially adopted on 11 December 1997 in Kyoto, Japan and entered into force on 16 February 2005. As of April 2010, 191 states have signed and ratified the protocol.[2]
Under the Protocol, 37 countries ("Annex I countries") commit themselves to a reduction of four greenhouse gases (GHG) (carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, sulphur hexafluoride) and two groups of gases (hydrofluorocarbons and perfluorocarbons) produced by them, and all member countries give general commitments. Annex I countries agreed to reduce their collective greenhouse gas emissions by 5.2% from the 1990 level. Emission limits do not include emissions by international aviation and shipping, but are in addition to the industrial gases, chlorofluorocarbons, or CFCs, which are dealt with under the 1987 Montreal Protocol on Substances that Deplete the Ozone Layer.
The benchmark 1990 emission levels were accepted by the Conference of the Parties of UNFCCC (decision 2/CP.3) were the values of "global warming potential" calculated for the IPCC Second Assessment Report.[3] These figures are used for converting the various greenhouse gas emissions into comparable CO2 equivalents (CO2-eq) when computing overall sources and sinks.
The Protocol allows for several "flexible mechanisms", such as emissions trading, the clean development mechanism (CDM) and joint implementation to allow Annex I countries to meet their GHG emission limitations by purchasing GHG emission reductions credits from elsewhere, through financial exchanges, projects that reduce emissions in non-Annex I countries, from other Annex I countries, or from annex I countries with excess allowances.
Each Annex I country is required to submit an annual report of inventories of all anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions from sources and removals from sinks under UNFCCC and the Kyoto Protocol. These countries nominate a person (called a "designated national authority") to create and manage its greenhouse gas inventory. Virtually all of the non-Annex I countries have also established a designated national authority to manage its Kyoto obligations, specifically the "CDM process" that determines which GHG projects they wish to propose for accreditation by the CDM Executive Board.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:07 PM  
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10 characters

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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
It's not a matter of mythological beings that by definition can't be seen or interacted with in any meaningful way.


oh crap!
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:25 PM  
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Is that a spaghetti monster?
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