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Old 05-02-2011, 09:39 PM  
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Gotta laugh at that one. Reminds me of the early 19th century when a lone doctor (Lister) had discovered a thing called bacteria, and extolled the virtues of doctors washing their hands prior to surgeries and delivering babies, and how the medical profession threw themselves on the floor in protest. Heck, even now, doctors still don't wash their hands. Ignorance abounds! Did you know that America is the only industrialized nation not making plans for rising sea levels? Other countries recognize the concept and are making plans for it and altering their behavior just in case the nay sayers are wrong!!!http://www.alternet.org/water/142389..._is_far_behind
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:11 PM  
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Okay, I'm going to take this a step at a time.

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Originally Posted by Musicinabottle View Post
Gotta laugh at that one. Reminds me of the early 19th century when a lone doctor (Lister) had discovered a thing called bacteria, and extolled the virtues of doctors washing their hands prior to surgeries and delivering babies, and how the medical profession threw themselves on the floor in protest. Heck, even now, doctors still don't wash their hands. Ignorance abounds!
Are you kidding me? Are you really comparing global warming to hand-washing, and then making the even more absurd broad statement that doctors don't wash their hands?


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Did you know that America is the only industrialized nation not making plans for rising sea levels? Other countries recognize the concept and are making plans for it and altering their behavior just in case the nay sayers are wrong!!!Countries Are Preparing for Rising Seas But the U.S. Is Far Behind | Water | AlterNet
Did you even read your own report, or research any of it at all before you posted this?

First off, the article you linked identified that the US has a plan in place, but he says that he doesn't consider it serious enough to actually help.

Nextly, many US coastal cities are actually acting on plans to raise flood walls, sea walls, etc. - including, to name a few major ones, New York City, San Fransisco, and Los Angeles.



And lastly, not to ruin your fear-fest, but sea level monitoring in the Pacific (Tuvalu) and Indian Oceans (Maldives) has shown no sign of any sea level rise. That's right, absolutely none.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:14 PM  
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What does the title say when the link is brought up.......? Regarding the washing of hands......It showcases the ignorance. Plenty of articles about doctors not washing their hands these days even. It's a metaphore.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:39 PM  
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Heck, even now, doctors still don't wash their hands. Ignorance abounds! Did you know that America is the only industrialized nation not making plans for rising sea levels? Other countries recognize the concept and are making plans for it
There was an Indian doctor who practiced in Portland and Australia killing many of his patients. He's in jail finally but he was adamant about being above the need to scrub up.

In the Pacific NW we're trying to find people who speak the dialect of the Marshal Islands because the people are moving to the US because their islands are awash.

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Are sea walls the answer to protecting Pacific islands?
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Updated April 26, 2011 08:09:52
The United Nations Framework on Climate Change says sea levels around the world will rise by up to 58 centimetres by the end of this century as a result of global warming and polar meltdown.

It's a disturbing prospect for the Pacific Islands and will no doubt lead to more demands for sea walls to be built to protect the population.

The latest example is in the Marshall Islands where the UN Ambassador is urging aid donors to assist by providing funding for a five kilometre wall around the capital Majuro at a cost of around 20 million dollars.

But just how effective are such walls as a barrier against rising seas?
Radio Australia:Pacific Beat:Story:Are sea walls the answer to protecting Pacific islands?

They say "ignorance is bliss".
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:43 PM  
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Is that a spaghetti monster?
sure is, the FSM Himself.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:49 PM  
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WILL rise being the key phrase there. Predictions.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:03 PM  
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And lastly, not to ruin your fear-fest, but sea level monitoring in the Pacific (Tuvalu) and Indian Oceans (Maldives) has shown no sign of any sea level rise. That's right, absolutely none.
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http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/pacbeat/stories/201104/s3200244.htm
Quote:
COUTTS: Well what has been lost in the Marshall Islands? They've lost shoreline, but are they losing mangroves or palms or any of their arable land that they've been farming?

FORD: There are reports of, you often see photos of coconut palms falling into the lagoon and whatnot. I think a bigger concern for local agriculture is saltwater intrusion into the fresh water system. So recently, this year in February we had unusually high tides, which are known as king tides throughout the Pacific, and these coincided with la nina phenomenon, which actually raises sea-level in our part of the Pacific, and because of this a lot of islands were flooded just purely by tidal intrusion onto the island. So I visited a number of islands a couple of weeks after this and you could see the undergrowth was starting to turn brown, breadfruit trees were starting to lose their leaves. So this was a particular concern to a lot of island communities.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/26/us-climate-nauru-idUSTRE73P6TU20110426
Quote:
(Reuters) - Sea level rise is the "most terrifying" impact of climate change and rich countries are showing scant leadership in addressing the threats, the incoming chair of a U.N. alliance of small island states said on Tuesday.

Marlene Moses, the U.N. ambassador of the Pacific island state of Nauru, the world's smallest republic, urged developed countries to do far more to cut their greenhouse gas emissions and to provide climate aid to developing states.

Nauru was chosen on Tuesday to take over from Grenada in late 2011 as chair of the Alliance of Small Island States (AOSIS), a 43-member group whose members from the Caribbean to the Indian Ocean are especially at risk from rising seas.

"It's the most terrifying of all climate change impacts," Moses told Reuters in a telephone interview. "I once said that climate change is as big a threat to security as an invading army. Sea level rise will force people to relocate."

She faulted rich nations for failing to do enough.

"We are really waiting for a leader to emerge from the developed world," she said. "We are going through not only a climate crisis but also a leadership crisis. This is holding up the multilateral process."

She said Nauru's 10,000 people, living on a rocky island of 21 sq kms (8 sq miles) in the western Pacific, were primarily at risk from disruptions to water supplies, erosion and damage to the ocean exacerbated by climate change.

"But for low-lying atolls -- the Marshall Islands, Kiribati, Tuvalu, sea level rise is really a threat. Relocation is a threat. It is imminent," she said of the risks that states could be swamped by rising seas.
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http://www.chinapost.com.tw/international/europe/2011/05/03/300888/Global-sea.htm
Global sea levels rising three times faster: report

Quote:
COPENHAGEN -- Global sea levels are feared to be rising higher and faster than previously estimated due to rapidly melting Artic ice sheets, according to a leak of new report obtained by a Danish newspaper Monday.
Sea levels were estimated to rise between 0.9 and 1.6 meters by the year 2100 according to the findings by the Arctic Monitoring and Assessment Program (AMAP), cited by Danish daily Politiken.

The report, due to be published Tuesday, suggested an almost three-fold higher rise in sea levels compared with a 2007 assessment by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change

HTML Code:
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/international/europe/2011/05/03/300888/Global-sea.htm
Quote:
West Coast Sea Levels, Stable For 30 Years, May Begin To Accelerate Rise ? SIO
By: Bradley Fikes ? May 2nd, 2011
San Diego and other areas of the West Coast may soon experience rising sea levels, which have remained steady for the last three decades, according to a new study from Scripps Institution of Oceanography.

The study?s lead author is Peter Bromirski, an SIO associate project scientist.

The study addresses a conundrum: Global warming theory predicts that as temperatures rise, the global sea level will rise at an accelerating rate. However, this has not been observed to take place on the West Coast (and many other parts of the globe, I might add).

In San Diego, for example, the sea level has risen at a steady pace of 2.06 millimeters per year for a century, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
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http://www.theday.com/article/20110502/NWS01/305029930/-1/NWS
Rising temperatures put penguins on thin ice
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Climate change is a topic many people find "a little overwhelming. People are a little burned out on this topic," he said. "It's a subject that's so huge, it challenges our existence."

For his part, Montaigne said, he's come to the conclusion that motivating the public to make the kinds of lifestyle and energy use changes that would be needed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions will be very difficult. But he is hopeful that technology and engineering breakthroughs will provide a means to counteract the effects of climate change. While the public needs to be aware of how humans are impacting the environment on a global scale, he said, it's also important to "stay positive" and give people the hope that there are actions that can make a difference.
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Old 05-03-2011, 12:43 AM  
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That's where I disagree with it. They're all predictions and speculations.

While some ice caps are melting, Greenland and Antarctica are actually growing in ice mass. Scientists have 33 records of revolutions to date of glaciers rising and retreating - it's completely normal.

The earth goes through cycles. The ice ages, then the subsequent receding of the ice.

Did you know that between the 1940's-1970's, temperatures were dropping, so there was actually a scare of "global cooling"? People thought another ice age was coming.

It's just the latest trend - give it ten years, and there will be another scare.
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Old 05-03-2011, 05:39 PM  
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Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
Is that a spaghetti monster?
That is the spaghetti monster of the church of the flying spaghetti monster and worshipped by pastafarians......

Flying Spaghetti Monster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's point was that religion is silly, as the flying spaghetti monster is no less or more valid then any other religion based any extraordinary grounds...
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Old 05-03-2011, 09:25 PM  
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Greenland and Antarctica are actually growing in ice mass
Quote:
In finer detail, the Larsen Ice Shelf is a series of three shelves that occupy (or occupied) distinct embayments along the coast. From north to south, the three segments are called Larsen A (the smallest), Larsen B, and Larsen C (the largest) by researchers who work in the area. The Larsen A ice shelf disintegrated in January 1995. The Larsen B ice shelf disintegrated in February 2002. The Larsen C ice shelf appears to be stable for the time being, though scientists predict that, if localized warming continues at its current rate, the shelf could disintegrate at some point within the foreseeable future.[2]
The Larsen disintegration events were unusual by past standards. Typically, ice shelves lose mass by iceberg calving and by melting at their upper and lower surfaces. The disintegration events are linked to the ongoing climate warming in the Antarctic Peninsula, about 0.5 ?C per decade since the late 1940s, which is a consequence of localized warming of the Antarctic peninsula.[3] This localized warming is caused by anthropogenic global warming, according to some scientists through strengthening of the Antarctic annular winds.[4]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larsen_Ice_Shelf
Climate Progress: An insider's view of climate science, politics, and solutions
West Antarctic ice sheet collapse even more catastrophic for U.S. coasts

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http://climateprogress.org/2009/02/05/antarctic-ice-sheet-collapse-even-more-catastrophic-for-us-coasts/


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James Hansen basically has said that we are committed to large WAIS melting and Greenland etc unless we preform miracles.

Target Atmospheric CO2: Where Should Humanity Aim?
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http://www.bentham.org/open/toascj/openaccess2.htm

Antarctic ice shelf set to collapse due to warming
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http://uk.reuters.com/article/2009/01/19/us-antarctica-ice-idUKTRE50I4G520090119
Quote:
(Reuters) - A huge Antarctic ice shelf is on the brink of collapse with just a sliver of ice holding it in place, the latest victim of global warming that is altering maps of the frozen continent.

"We've come to the Wilkins Ice Shelf to see its final death throes," David Vaughan, a glaciologist at the British Antarctic Survey (BAS), told Reuters after the first -- and probably last -- plane landed near the narrowest part of the ice.

The flat-topped shelf has an area of thousands of square kilometers, jutting 20 meters (65 ft) out of the sea off the Antarctic Peninsula.

But it is held together only by an ever-thinning 40-km (25-mile) strip of ice that has eroded to an hour-glass shape just 500 meters wide at its narrowest.

In 1950, the strip was almost 100 km wide.

"It really could go at any minute," Vaughan said on slushy snow in bright sunshine beside a red Twin Otter plane that landed on skis. He added that the ice bridge could linger weeks or months.

The Wilkins once covered 16,000 sq km (6,000 sq miles). It has lost a third of its area but is still about the size of Jamaica or the U.S. state of Connecticut. Once the strip breaks up, the sea is likely to sweep away much of the remaining ice.

Quote:
Studies show that in the middle of the present interglacial the former Larsen A region, which was the furthest north and outside the Antarctic Circle, had previously broken up and reformed only about 4,000 years ago, although the former Larsen B had been stable for at least 10,000 years.[6] The maximal ice age on the current shelf dates from only two hundred years ago. The speed of Crane Glacier increased threefold after the collapse of the Larsen B and this is likely to be due to the removal of a buttressing effect of the ice shelf.[14] Recent data collected by an international team of investigators through satellite-based radar measurements suggests that the overall ice-sheet mass balance in Antarctica is increasingly negative.[15]
Planet Extinction, collapse of the Greenland Glaciers
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http://www.planetextinction.com/planet_extinction_greenland.htm
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The Greenland glaciers that cover the island contain enough water to raise sea level twenty feet, or seven meters. It was once thought (and that was only six years ago) that the glaciers would be self-sustaining even in a warming world because of size and so on.

We now know that not only are the edges melting fast, but the surface melt is seeping through the ice to lubricate the junction between the glacier and the rock underneath. This is the unexpected factor that has turned scientific attention onto this escalating problem.

It appears that the Greenland ice is shot through with crevices, tunnels and faults through which the melting upper surface can penetrate right through the glacier, and threaten to break the attachment between the ice and the rock base.

When this happens much of this mountain of water will flow into the sea. Already twenty-one of the great glacial masses are moving seawards eight times faster than ten years ago and disintegrating three times faster than in the preceding five years.

It would seem we are on the verge of a major tipping point in climate change, if we have not already reached it. The latest US Navy survey suggests there will be no sea ice left in the Arctic summer by 2016. This has been unprecedented within the entire record of human species.
Quote:
The Greenland, Alaskan and West Antarctic ice sheets together hold about 25% of the fresh water on the planet. The effects of the collapse of either ice sheet would be huge. Once you lost one of these ice sheets, there's no putting it back for thousands of years, if ever.

If they disintegrate, sea level could rise nearly 20 meters, possibly in only one decade. This would swamp most cities and ports, as well a much of the best agricultural land.


Quote:
One reason is that Arctic temperatures are increasing at an average of 0.66?C per decade. If the global average is 2?C, then the arctic will be 4?C, and more over Greenland. The final deglaciation of Greenland will be triggered above 2.7?C local. In less than 30 years, there has been a 40% loss of arctic sea ice.

Similarly the western Antarctica’s mass is disappearing at about 240 cubic kilometers per year. Depletion of ozone is adding to this problem for it has encouraged hotter winds to flow across the Antarctic, and this is already impacting on the Larsen ice mass.

The global impact of 2?C rise in the graph shows a 55 meter rise. This is more than occurred in the Pliocene Era 3 million years ago when the northern hemisphere was up to 8 degrees hotter and the southern a couple of degrees colder.

The rate accelerated in 2004. It holds 70% of Earth's freshwater.

The consequences of sea-level rise
If the seas rise a modest 400mm 22% of coastal wetlands will be lost, and more when we include the likely human reaction to that change. A one meter sea-level rise would affect 6 million people in Egypt, with some 15% of agricultural land lost, 13 million in Bangladesh with 16% of the national rice production lost, and 72 million in China with tens of thousands of hectares of agricultural land.
Quote:
The earth goes through cycles. The ice ages, then the subsequent receding of the ice.
Always did but the Industrial Revolution dumped too much crud into our atmosphere in slightly more than a century.
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