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Old 01-20-2011, 02:48 AM  
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Over 50% of the American people were opposed to the healthcare reform before it was even signed, but the Dem's passed it through. So the President signed into law something that the American people were clearly against.

The repeal is expected to pass through, of course, but Obama has already promised to veto it. No one can stop him, not even the American people, Congress, or the House. Sounds like pretty balanced power.
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Old 01-20-2011, 03:49 AM  
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The repeal passed the House but it will never get through the Senate, and Obama will never need to veto the repeal.

Yes, it is balanced and the system is working the way it's supposed to in this case.

The problem is that Obamacare ever became a law at all. It is a gross violation of the Constitution and those who swore an oath to preserve, protect and defend that document are either evil or idiots. Neither class of people is ideal to represent the people.
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Old 01-20-2011, 03:56 AM  
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It won't get through the Senate because the Democrats have vowed not to even let it be debated. The Republicans say they're going to get it in somehow, but we'll see I suppose. But when the majority of people are still against Obamacare, yet the Democrats won't even let it see the debate floor, that's when I think the system is broken.
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:19 AM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
Everyone is entitled to healthcare, we are among the richest nations on earth, but have a pathetic health system. you can complain about it being income redistribution but that is horribly shortsighted. WHO PAYS NOW??? not the people without insurance, they get a free ride

so who pays now? the people that do pay for insurance, they pay for their insurance and apparently I pay for your health coverage as well, so quit taking the free ride off me, I doubt you have a couple hundred grand saved up for a medical emergency so unless you have a notarized letter on you at all times saying how much the hospital should spend before giving up you are planning on getting a free ride from me if something does go wrong.
"everyone is entitled to healthcare". What's next, an Iphone??

I agree that many people are getting a free ride now. That to me is THE problem. As unpopular as it would be, the only TRULY FAIR position is for people who pay for coverage, get the coverage. If everyone is paying for everyone elses healthcare then it justifies "everyone" telling "everyone" else how to live (more healthy) so they won't cost "everyone" else more money. That is where we are starting to go anyway. If you are on board with that... well, I believe that is going towards socialism.

Oh, and I do have money put away for emergencies. (I know, probably not enough to cover healthcare costs)

Oh, and if it is free, then we have people going to the ER with the sniffles... If they aren't paying for it, WHY NOT??? That is another problem we have. EVERYONE NEEDS TO PAY FOR COVERAGE, OR THEY WILL BE WASTEFUL WITH IT..
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:46 AM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
yes because all kids who are 25 and don't have employer based health coverage are deadbeats...... .................................................. .................................Think through what you wrote and ask yourself would it work with the changes you want, the answer to that is "no"
Obama's bill opens coverage to kids up to age 25 whether they are in college or NOT. Perhaps coverage for kids IN college is okay as long as it is part of the parent's plan. The deadbeats are the ones who could quite literally just sit in Mom and Dad's basement eating cheetos and playing online games until 4 in the morning and sleeping until 4 in the afternoon before he fires up another doobie.... Should I help pay for that???? Do you think that's fair??

And our current "social" programs are just awful. I think that if someone has cable, fancy phones, and all that NICE stuff then they don't really need help from the government anyway. (that's a little side rant, sorry)

Oh and as to whether it would "work" or not. If "work" means have everyone covered then probably not. If you mean "work" as in be fair to all involved, then yes I do believe that getting what you pay for would "work". It works for most any other product or service.

I will admit that the whole preexisting condition part is a sticking point that needs to be dealt with. I will definitely give you that. That sucks.

Oh, and on a lighter note we both drive Jeeps
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:36 AM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
Obama's bill opens coverage to kids up to age 25 whether they are in college or NOT. Perhaps coverage for kids IN college is okay as long as it is part of the parent's plan. The deadbeats are the ones who could quite literally just sit in Mom and Dad's basement eating cheetos and playing online games until 4 in the morning and sleeping until 4 in the afternoon before he fires up another doobie.... Should I help pay for that???? Do you think that's fair??
well they are still children, granted adult children, so should parents be able to purchase coverage for them on a family plan if the parents are willing to pay the extra amount, yes as that is the only insurance that will be true coverage. Beyond college there are legitimate reasons for this, a lot of entry level jobs for high school grads don't offer much in the way of benefits, now of course they shouldn't expect luxurous benefits but basic access to healthcare should not be a luxury item
Quote:
And our current "social" programs are just awful. I think that if someone has cable, fancy phones, and all that NICE stuff then they don't really need help from the government anyway. (that's a little side rant, sorry)
true but that is a different issue
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Oh and as to whether it would "work" or not. If "work" means have everyone covered then probably not. If you mean "work" as in be fair to all involved, then yes I do believe that getting what you pay for would "work". It works for most any other product or service.
no, your idea still has me paying for an uninsured person's access, so no it's not fair to anyone involved, unless you could get hospitals to refuse service for people who can't pay then the only logical thing that happens are the insured paying for the uninsured, so one of the two things have to change and we are far too civil of a society to just let people die like that if we can save them in emergency care, we are apparently not civil enough that if it require long term treatment then it is ok to just let people die if they can't pay since it's not an immediate emergency
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I will admit that the whole preexisting condition part is a sticking point that needs to be dealt with. I will definitely give you that. That sucks.

Oh, and on a lighter note we both drive Jeeps
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:43 AM  
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I know we are trying to solve a difficult (perhaps impossible) issue here. There are just a couple of things that I think we need to avoid.

-Waste of services. I believe (correct me if I am wrong) that the less people have to pay for a service, the more they will use it (whether they need too or not). I think we see alot of that in our current system also.

-Control over our lives from Government. I believe that whenever the government gets more involved with somethinng that is the result.(the government is also not the most efficient at much of anything)

-Encouraging dependance on our government. (results in the above)

-Raising costs for employers. This results in a shift between cost/benifit of hiring additional employees. (especially right now.)

Some things that would greatly improve our current system.
-Do something about the overtreating of patients! (This greatly increases costs).
This is often due to fear of liability from healthcare providers.
-More community assistance. Churches, family, etc. I know, that starts getting into many other social issues as well.

I think the root cause of many problems in our society is the subsidizing of some peoples existance. I know that what I am about to say will likely ignite a firestorm but............................................... ....................................


If someone needs their existance subsidized then they have no business having children.

Don't ask me "well, what would you like to do about it??" because this is one of those situations where there is an elephant in the room but noone is willing to shoot it. I'm not even going to waste my breath on that.


Those things being said, there are individual situations that are good arguments for both sides. I just don't want our country to fall down this slope. It is sad.

Enough of my ramblings.....
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:31 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
Everyone is entitled to healthcare,
Respectfully, no one is entitled to anything they didn't earn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
we are among the richest nations on earth,
And we got that way by having the freest nation on earth where people could invent and innovate and earn their wealth. Encumbering taxation leads to stagnation, and establishing an entitlement or dependency mentality results in idleness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
but have a pathetic health system.
Then why do foreigners -- including heads of state in socialist countries where their health care is "free" -- come here for care?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
you can complain about it being income redistribution but that is horribly shortsighted. WHO PAYS NOW??? not the people without insurance, they get a free ride
So rather than cut off their free ride, you'd prefer the government stick it to everyone? I don't agree.

If you want health care costs to plummet, bring about tort reform, allow insurance companies to operate outside their home states, and remove the government taxpayer trough from the entire industry. Allow it to settle into a "charge what the (free) market will bear" mode and more people will be able to afford it honestly.
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:32 PM  
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I think that this entire thread is a great example of why we need to repeal this law and completely re-do it. Everyone has something that they don't like about it, or something that they just plain don't know. It was rushed upon us, despite most Americans being against it, and it needs to take a step back.

I agree our healthcare needs some help, but I don't think socialism is the place to look for it.

I can only hope a few Dem's will be wise enough to take a chance on upsetting some of their colleagues by saying those forbidden words, "Maybe we should think about this..."
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:54 PM  
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Brian, and Jake7....
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