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Old 09-04-2012, 10:16 AM  
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Ryan's lies

... if this guy is lying this much already how many lies will become apparent if they take office.....


Paul Ryan gave a feisty anti-Obama speech that will have fact-checkers working for days. His most brazen lie accused President Obama of ?raiding? Medicare by taking the exact same $716 billion that Ryan and the House GOP notoriously voted to slash. It was stunning.

But that?s not all. He attacked Obama for failing to keep open a Janesville GM plant that closed under Bush in 2008. He hit him for a credit-rating downgrade that S&P essentially blamed on GOP intransigence. He claimed that all taxpayers got from the 2009 stimulus was ?more debt,? when most got a tax cut (and the stimulus is known to have saved between 1.4 and 3.3 million jobs). He derided the president for walking away from the Simpson Bowles commission deficit-cutting recommendations when Ryan himself, a commission member, voted against those recommendations.

He blamed Obama for a deficit mostly created by programs he himself voted for ? from two wars, tax cuts, new Medicare benefits and TARP.

And of course, he riffed on the tired central lie of the GOP convention: that the president said ?government gets the credit? for small businesses, not the business owners themselves.

Other than that, it was a great speech.

Interestingly, for all his lies, Ryan didn?t repeat the Romney camp?s false claim that Obama did away with the welfare system?s work requirements. Maybe he ran out of time.

Ryan got off a few good zingers: ?College grads shouldn?t have to live out their 20s in childhood bedrooms, staring up at fading Obama posters.? He didn?t mention that he opposed legislation to keep student loan rates from doubling. His remarks about his childhood were slightly moving. He talked about losing his father at 16, and he called his mother, who went back to school and to work after that, his role model. But he never mentioned the Social Security death benefits that let him go to an out-of-state school. Occasionally he seemed to be going after swing voters, rather than his hard-right base, taking a more in sorrow than anger tone about Obama?s failings. Then he?d mix things up with nastiness and lies.

And when Ryan riffed on the handful of jobs he briefly held, his Ayn Randian roots were clear. ?When I was waiting tables, washing dishes, or mowing lawns for money, I never thought of myself as stuck in some station in life, he said. [Perhaps that's because he wasn't; he grew up in a wealthy family.] I was on my own path, my own journey, an American journey where I could think for myself, decide for myself, define happiness for myself. That?s what we do in this country. That?s the American Dream. That?s freedom, and I?ll take it any day over the supervision and sanctimony of the central planners.? That?s straight out of Rand, and ?50s anti-Communist paranoia.

Finally, the man chided by the Catholic Bishops for his anti-poor budget had the audacity to say, ?The greatest of all responsibilities, is that of the strong to protect the weak. The truest measure of any society is how it treats those who cannot defend or care for themselves.? Ryan?s budget decimates programs for ?those who cannot defend or care for themselves.?

The sanctimonious V.P. nominee seems to have forgotten the Ninth Commandment: ?Thou shalt not lie.? Ryan believes he can say anything and get away with it.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:42 PM  
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Meanwhile Obama's experiences in university neighborhoods and Chicago politics have apparently left him ignorant that there are intellectually serious arguments against liberal policies. So Mr. Obama when presented with such arguments by Ryan and others, scowls, calls people names and does the intellectual equivalent of stamping his feet.
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Old 09-04-2012, 01:57 PM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
Meanwhile Obama's experiences in university neighborhoods and Chicago politics have apparently left him ignorant that there are intellectually serious arguments against liberal policies. So Mr. Obama when presented with such arguments by Ryan and others, scowls, calls people names and does the intellectual equivalent of stamping his feet.
so you are saying it's ok if someone lies as long as their agenda corresponds with your own?
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:01 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
... if this guy is lying this much already how many lies will become apparent if they take office.....


Paul Ryan gave a feisty anti-Obama speech that will have fact-checkers working for days. His most brazen lie accused President Obama of ?raiding? Medicare by taking the exact same $716 billion that Ryan and the House GOP notoriously voted to slash. It was stunning.

But that?s not all. He attacked Obama for failing to keep open a Janesville GM plant that closed under Bush in 2008. He hit him for a credit-rating downgrade that S&P essentially blamed on GOP intransigence. He claimed that all taxpayers got from the 2009 stimulus was ?more debt,? when most got a tax cut (and the stimulus is known to have saved between 1.4 and 3.3 million jobs). He derided the president for walking away from the Simpson Bowles commission deficit-cutting recommendations when Ryan himself, a commission member, voted against those recommendations.

He blamed Obama for a deficit mostly created by programs he himself voted for ? from two wars, tax cuts, new Medicare benefits and TARP.

And of course, he riffed on the tired central lie of the GOP convention: that the president said ?government gets the credit? for small businesses, not the business owners themselves.

Other than that, it was a great speech.

Interestingly, for all his lies, Ryan didn?t repeat the Romney camp?s false claim that Obama did away with the welfare system?s work requirements. Maybe he ran out of time.

Ryan got off a few good zingers: ?College grads shouldn?t have to live out their 20s in childhood bedrooms, staring up at fading Obama posters.? He didn?t mention that he opposed legislation to keep student loan rates from doubling. His remarks about his childhood were slightly moving. He talked about losing his father at 16, and he called his mother, who went back to school and to work after that, his role model. But he never mentioned the Social Security death benefits that let him go to an out-of-state school. Occasionally he seemed to be going after swing voters, rather than his hard-right base, taking a more in sorrow than anger tone about Obama?s failings. Then he?d mix things up with nastiness and lies.

And when Ryan riffed on the handful of jobs he briefly held, his Ayn Randian roots were clear. ?When I was waiting tables, washing dishes, or mowing lawns for money, I never thought of myself as stuck in some station in life, he said. [Perhaps that's because he wasn't; he grew up in a wealthy family.] I was on my own path, my own journey, an American journey where I could think for myself, decide for myself, define happiness for myself. That?s what we do in this country. That?s the American Dream. That?s freedom, and I?ll take it any day over the supervision and sanctimony of the central planners.? That?s straight out of Rand, and ?50s anti-Communist paranoia.

Finally, the man chided by the Catholic Bishops for his anti-poor budget had the audacity to say, ?The greatest of all responsibilities, is that of the strong to protect the weak. The truest measure of any society is how it treats those who cannot defend or care for themselves.? Ryan?s budget decimates programs for ?those who cannot defend or care for themselves.?

The sanctimonious V.P. nominee seems to have forgotten the Ninth Commandment: ?Thou shalt not lie.? Ryan believes he can say anything and get away with it.
All politicians lie.

I assume your a democrat and lean a bit left of center.
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Old 09-04-2012, 04:16 PM  
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Originally Posted by MRB View Post
All politicians lie.

I assume your a democrat and lean a bit left of center.
of course they do, but there is a difference then estimating future unemployment rates or even small lies verse the grandiose completely false claims the republicans are making

in such a major prepared speech to blame obama for something before he was president and had no control over and then to blame him for voting for a plan that ryan himself proposed is a big difference.

a large portion of republicans still think obama is not born in america, they are a group that does not care about reason or logic, just fear.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:19 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
of course they do, but there is a difference then estimating future unemployment rates or even small lies verse the grandiose completely false claims the republicans are making

in such a major prepared speech to blame obama for something before he was president and had no control over and then to blame him for voting for a plan that ryan himself proposed is a big difference.

a large portion of republicans still think obama is not born in america, they are a group that does not care about reason or logic, just fear.

Romney blames and lies, Ryan blames and lies, Obama blames and lies, Biden blames and lies, they all blame and lie, big and small. They'll all be speaking untruths and blaming each other in overdrive now, as it is soon election time.

Who Cares?

None of these boobs in office and running for the office have a clue on what to do about the economy anyhow.

It seems the economy works out these recession and recovery cycles best when politicians and government butt out and leave it alone.
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:38 PM  
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Originally Posted by MRB View Post
Romney blames and lies, Ryan blames and lies, Obama blames and lies, Biden blames and lies, they all blame and lie, big and small. They'll all be speaking untruths and blaming each other in overdrive now, as it is soon election time.

Who Cares?

None of these boobs in office and running for the office have a clue on what to do about the economy anyhow.

It seems the economy works out these recession and recovery cycles best when politicians and government butt out and leave it alone.
except this and many other realities say otherwise, the average person does better when democrats are in office than republicans.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:14 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
except this and many other realities say otherwise, the average person does better when democrats are in office than republicans.
Well I must not be the "average" person and an exception to your chart here.

I've experienced steady and increasing income and business volume for myself since 1984 regardless who's in office. Theres been some ups and downs over the years but they don't seem to be tied to the economy. Kind of the nature of my business. The only thing I can say is that in about 1984 I divorced a gold digging wife and started my own business. Been self employed ever since.

Probably not fit to work for anyone else now even if I wanted to.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:02 PM  
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Just from personal experience. I owned 2 businesses for 40 years. My best years were the Clinton years, the worst were the Dubya years.
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Old 09-04-2012, 07:22 PM  
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Originally Posted by MRB View Post
Well I must not be the "average" person and an exception to your chart here.

I've experienced steady and increasing income and business volume for myself since 1984 regardless who's in office. Theres been some ups and downs over the years but they don't seem to be tied to the economy. Kind of the nature of my business. The only thing I can say is that in about 1984 I divorced a gold digging wife and started my own business. Been self employed ever since.

Probably not fit to work for anyone else now even if I wanted to.
yes some people are above and below, and yes it is adjusted for inflation, the chart is an overall indicator, it does not mean it is impossible for anyone to do worse/better but indicates the bigger picture - the economy as a whole.
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