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Old 02-18-2011, 06:51 AM  
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This Union bill in Wis. could help save our country

No Wis. union vote as Democrats leave state - U.S. news - Life - msnbc.com

If this could pass (in some form or another) across many states, this could economically save alot of jobs and help many states wade through these money shortfalls.... Move it into the private sector also and it could make us a more competitive country....
I think it is awesome..
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:40 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
No Wis. union vote as Democrats leave state - U.S. news - Life - msnbc.com

If this could pass (in some form or another) across many states, this could economically save alot of jobs and help many states wade through these money shortfalls.... Move it into the private sector also and it could make us a more competitive country....
I think it is awesome..
yeah, down with workers rights and protections.... yay.......

who needs any kind of fair employment laws..... any law protecting workers would quickly disapear as the UNIONS of companies can lobby a lot harder then any citizen can

yes i agree some unions are out of control, but stopping all union activity is nothing but an attempt to give unions of companies (such as the national retail federation) all the power to use their union to destroy all workers rights

If you believe in this then I am sure you believe all collective lobbying organizations need to be shut down too right? since a lot of companies use those in the same way employees use unions....

Evcen if you are not in a union, the unions protect you as there is always the threat of a union forming if the conditions get bad enough so many employers will walk the fine line just short of it.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:50 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
No Wis. union vote as Democrats leave state - U.S. news - Life - msnbc.com

If this could pass (in some form or another) across many states, this could economically save alot of jobs and help many states wade through these money shortfalls.... Move it into the private sector also and it could make us a more competitive country....
I think it is awesome..
Me too! Now if we could just get Americans to forego their pensions and medical insurance entirely, and work for 19 cents an hour, then we'd be set!
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:21 AM  
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Well, down here in SC we have plenty of jobs moving in (Greenville anyway) and alot of it has to do with the "free to work" status we have. This makes unionizing more difficult.
I have worked at a union facility before and it was a joke! The longer you had worked there the less you had to do and the more raises you got (huh??), noone was allowed to change a lightbulb..you had to call the electrician (huh??), and I remember a guy getting fired because he was caught sleeping..I don't mean fell asleep. I mean the guy had sheets of styrofoam laid out like a bed with another rolled up like a pillow all hidden away in a dark corner. HE DIDN'T LOSE HIS JOB!!

Also, look at the automakers:
GM has a $73 hourly wage cost including benefits and overtime. Toyota has five major assembly plants in the U.S. Its hourly wage cost plus benefits is $48. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out which company will be at a competitive disadvantage.
I guess that is why the US automakers have such a good rep and are so successful... Oh, wait...
Then there's the "jobs bank" feature of the UAW contract where workers who are laid off workers get 95 percent of their base pay and all their benefits. Right now there's a two-year limit but in the past workers could stay in the "jobs bank" forever unless they turned down two job offers within 50 miles of their factory. At one time job bank membership exceeded 7,000 "workers."
7,000 workers???? I can't even imagine how much something like that costs.

I just think that those examples are almost enough reason Unions are beyond their use.
Also, it is very difficult to get rid of "bad" teachers, especially if they have "tenure". This has much to do with Teachers unions.
I definitely believe that they (unions) have had a place in the workplace, but once injustices are dealt with, it just becomes ridiculous and unsustaining for a business.... And people complain about jobs going overseas.

People want:
lower prices, better pay/benifits, and jobs to stay over here... It is mathematically impossible. There are short term things that folks (other nations) have tried to get all three and in the long term it always fails. Unsustainable.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:33 AM  
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^^^^^^^^

Then GM should have bargained better and made sure to leave a way out, for example in 2008/2009 they could have easily replaced everyone with people willing to work for a lower wage

yes I do agree some unions are way out of hand, the auto manufacturers are among the worst and they always get pointed out. but don't think for a second that if unions were to be banned that all the protections created by unions will disappear VERY quickly as there will be no one to fight for them
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:00 AM  
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Surely if it was easy to bargain their way out they would have. And as far as "protections" disappearing, I just know that down this way, we don't have very many unions at all and there are some really good jobs out there.
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:05 AM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
^^^^^^^^

........ in 2008/2009 they could have easily replaced everyone with people willing to work for a lower wage

.........auto manufacturers are among the worst and they always get pointed out. but don't think for a second that if unions were to be banned that all the protections created by unions will disappear VERY quickly as there will be no one to fight for them
You don't think the ones who accepted the jobs (from union workers being replaced) would be afraid of retribution?? That is why strikes work. Because people are afraid to be "scabs".

You are correct, UAW is among the worst. Don't you think that most of the other unions could only wish to be that "successful"?? If given the opportunity, they would do the same. Always trying to get more.
It can kill a company.
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:22 AM  
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These debates roll on forever. I just hope these people affected have a good memory when it comes to voting time nextaround
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:40 AM  
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I think the state is in deeply in debt to the tune of 5 billion or so.

Why not just let the state go bankrupt and then all contracts with the unions who represent state workers are null and void.

Better yet, why not cut services, lay off teachers, lay off state employees, stop clearing the roads in winter, close school campuses and consolidate them, stop bus service and force parents to get their kids to school and pick them up, eliminate public transportation, reduce the police force by 50 percent; that way, the union folks would discover just how much their union really does for them.

It is the threat of strike and the loss of all of the above that is the crowbar unions have in bargaining.

The mind set that folks would be working for .90 an hour without unions is absurd! Trained, skilled workers would would establish a free market value for their trade. What would suffer is the apprentice program operated by many of the trade unions. I guess that would open opportunities to operate trade schools in their place.

If the folks didn't want fiscal responsibility in government, they should have voted the progressives back into office.
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:43 AM  
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Greenville, SC
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Originally Posted by Musicinabottle View Post
These debates roll on forever.
This is very true. I think that pretty much all the topics under this category are just people with different views that are very difficult to convince otherwise... Me included. Just the way it goes.

As far as the "people effected" remembering coming election time, it just goes like anything else... If 51% of the people were in the Unions, there would likely be no going back. Same with if 51% were gov't employees. Gov't would NEVER get any smaller. If 51% of people were on any gov't assistance, it would be game over for the country.

Nature of the beast I guess...
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