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Old 02-20-2011, 12:38 PM  
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Gosh, even early American History is chucked full of racism. Blacks and Chinese wern't seen as human beings you know? Actually, many unions were formed by Blacks specifically because they were treated so badly!
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Old 02-20-2011, 12:57 PM  
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gerald celente

look up that fellow on youtube,i don't follow along easily but he got me thinking,he ain't no future crystal ball viewer,just analyses stuff so far he's been right on.i'm older now and a history buff,it feels like were in the pages right now before a great change,not for the better if you liked what we have now.but you can see changes subtle like,i'm in a wealthy area of country fairfield county ct,and agway now sells chicken coops here been going there for 20 years never saw so much do it your self behavior i was there for hobby already.also canning supplies have bigger display space in grocery stores.add middle east oil and dollar trouble,not to mention house prices they went way up here people think they settled,but why can't they fall just as much?
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Old 02-20-2011, 01:38 PM  
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Originally Posted by Musicinabottle View Post
Gosh, even early American History is chucked full of racism. Blacks and Chinese weren't seen as human beings you know? Actually, many unions were formed by Blacks specifically because they were treated so badly!
True, what I was so feebly trying to point out is that unions are exclusionary. Closed shop means if you can't get into the union,, you don't work, or you work below union scale.

Nothing is perfect, unions, government, society, nothing. But nothing gets fixed without discussion. If we don't take time to look at what unions in this country have become and what they have done to small manufacturing, the automobile industry, the clothing industry and many other business which have been driven overseas due in large part to unions in this country pricing their members out of the market, then; we do ourselves a disservice.

Someone has to say that if you are running a sewing machine, it is what you do well, the only skill you have; then you have a personal responsibility to maintain a lifestyle that you are able to support on your own. The same if your only skill in life is flipping hamburgers, pumping gas, or cleaning someones home. There is nothing demeaning or lowly about working for a living. There is an issue with the expectation that your limited skills demand as much in compensation as those of a skilled tradesman. There is an issue with a skilled tradesman thinking their skills are worth that if a highly skilled technician, and engineer, a doctor or the CEO of a multi billion dollar corporation. You don't see your general practitioner making the money that a skilled heart surgeon does and that is what I am trying to suggest here is that there are unrealistic expectations.

Today, everybody wants three cars and a truck, an RV, a nice house and they think that those folks who have those things are evil or somehow got their money out of the pockets of the have nots. The money system grows with the population, folks. If you suddenly develope the flux capacitor, you will become a multi-millionaire, but that doesn't mean that somewhere there are people suffering in poverty because you have become rich.

I'm so bad at explaining that the more rich people there are, the better the economy is. It is the rich who buy the boats, airplanes, buildings, the $500 shoes, the $5000 suits, the businesses, invest in technology, and that spending creates jobs. The people who work in those jobs, then; pay taxes, spend their money, which creates demand for products. That stimulates investment and growth which creates more jobs.

I have rattled on too long so I'll conclude with this.

People used to take pride in what they have accomplished on their own, and other used tho have respect for themselves because of it. Today they see what their neighbor has and wonder, why they can't have that too. They don't respect themselves or their efforts to provide for their families welfare, they become envious of others. It would be great if everyone could fulfill all their dreams, but unfortunately life doesn't work that way.
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Old 02-20-2011, 02:09 PM  
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comeuppance on way

i lose my way also here ,point i make or try to see clearly is this the theory of trickle down stops somewhere above the multitude.i bought into supply and demand also or gave it weight but now the rich or well off buy homes of the old working neighbourhoods knock them down and build mcmansions on small lots price the worker out,so when a voice rises up and says the elegal wage earners who live many to a rental to send cash home are hurting wages. to many willing to work hard for less . should be stopped,the right wing says no we need cheap labor to keep economy moving what about supply and demand to work for the bottom wage earner?we don't count!and cheap goods from china we should be making it here.not all will even graduate h.s. use to be you could make a living wage.a few decades ago the rich were respected they owned large estates provided jobs painting lawn work even caretaking then many left for season,they kept to there side of town,now they've been replaced with ceo 's that will cut your throat to save a dollar on landscaping!
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:30 PM  
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mn
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Scott ,, you say

Those (many ) CEO's worked to get where they are. The rich (many of them) earned their money the hard way.
Look at some in the CEO's they get a mil or two bonus and the corporation is bailed out by the gov or they are chapter 13 , or close the doors ,,, they sure eared there money
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Old 02-20-2011, 05:39 PM  
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Originally Posted by tomj View Post
Look at some in the CEO's they get a mil or two bonus and the corporation is bailed out by the gov or they are chapter 13 , or close the doors ,,, they sure earned their money


bonuses were paid to the same people who were selling derivatives based on bad mortgages. In other cases the company took big losses but bonuses were still paid.
Rewards used to be for performance but now I think some boards vote everyone a big bonus to justify their own.
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Old 02-20-2011, 06:08 PM  
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mn
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some big wig a few weeks ago said if they ( ceo's ) don't get a big bonus that most ceo's will quit , good let some that are willing to do the job get in , not just get a bonus for setting on there can playing video games
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Old 02-20-2011, 07:34 PM  
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Originally Posted by tomj View Post
some big wig a few weeks ago said if they ( ceo's ) don't get a big bonus that most ceo's will quit , good let some that are willing to do the job get in , not just get a bonus for setting on there can playing video games
I think fair is fair on two counts. If a company based in America, outsources their product to China, then they shouln't be allowed to sell that Chinese made product here in the US! And......I think we should start outsourcing CEO positions to China and India!
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Old 02-21-2011, 06:25 AM  
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Originally Posted by Scott View Post
People used to take pride in what they have accomplished on their own, and other used tho have respect for themselves because of it. Today they see what their neighbor has and wonder, why they can't have that too. They don't respect themselves or their efforts to provide for their families welfare, they become envious of others. It would be great if everyone could fulfill all their dreams, but unfortunately life doesn't work that way.
THIS^^^^^

And the one who said people work better if they are shown appreciation....
I definitely agree with that.

To the ones who keep complaining about CEO pay/bonuses. These are things that are accepted by the shareholders of the company. What is it exactly that you want done?? Restrict pay, or do you want them (the CEOs) to turn down the money? If you have any stocks, go to the shareholders meetings.... I don't know... I just don't really care what they make as long as it is agreed upon by the shareholders because they own the business.

And to the one who spoke about co-ops. Sure, I think co-ops are great. If I am not mistaken, that means that the employees have equal shares in the company (right?)..They would probably be a little more cautious as to what they wanted for pay and benifits because it would directly impact THEIR business, and the business' future.
It would be like killing the goose that laid the golden egg!!
(I guess some folks might..)
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Old 02-21-2011, 08:55 AM  
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jobs here

pat buchanan ,even donald trump says keep jobs here trump says what many want to here ,but if he gets political traction he'll back off,only pat sticks to his convictions and he was dismissed, now to old to run.i'm only a spectator whats coming aint gonna be nice but ranting won't change things when the dollar falls !i'm in the camp of prepare for worse hope for best.be self reliant retire dept.
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