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Old 11-06-2010, 10:16 AM  
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Something else to consider. The US mill is about 3 milllion strong, not considering support staff that will not fight. My guess is about 300K are battle hardened an willing to fight, the rest will not. The reservists and Guard will not fight.

In the first Revolution only 3% (the 3%ers) fought, IIRC about 1% supported while the rest were either indifferent or were Loyalists.

In a country of 330 million you can expect the same, but this time is different, the 3%ers, now about 10million strong, well armed, prepared, and aware of what is at stake. Not to mention the knowledge of unconventional materials and the availablility of unconventional materials and the ability and will to use them. This will not be a conventional war, as I mentioned it will not be fought on military terms.

10 million able bodied and able minded, that is a forboding enemy of a tyrrantical gov, and they know it, otherwise they would have enslaved you already.
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Old 11-06-2010, 11:50 AM  
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Originally Posted by jacko View Post
New Orleans is a good case study.
All the services that most come to expect WILL NOT be in place during a major event. No police, no fire, no med aid early on, triage will be set up by volunteers several day after, much like it was in Haiti, but initially you will need to fend for yourself.

Further, just as police and fire fled to care for their own in NO so will it be on a national level. Consider jail and prison staff, most will flee their posts and officials will have to release the prison general population or let them die in their cells, nationally there will be about 2-3 million prisoners released with only a skeleton staff or military to care for the remaining high security prisoners. The public at large will have to deal with these people.

Something most don't think about, Gangs. Gangs like MS13 have infiltrated the military over the last decade for the purpose of being trained to fight, also prisons are a training ground for gangs. These folks are waiting for a major event to take place as to be able to fight for and take turf and power, you will be in the crossfire and they will you us for resupply.

Look to the south, 28K dead in Mexico in the last four years. These men, fighters, are very well trained, very well supplied, well beyond the fighters in the ME. The first thing they will do is move into the southern states and take control. 28K dead in the first week should be expected.

US mil does not have the numbers to control the US general population and will be effectively impotent, even at 100% deployment in the states. This is impossible to accomplish even with all things in the govs favor. The one thing that they have is air superiority, air strikes cannot be ruled out, however, this will basicly be counterproductive and selfdefeting, but possible and will problably be used in a limited effort.

In the midst of all this the one thing to watch for is countries like Russia to aid support not to the gov but to the Patriot, they will want a piece of the US when the dust settles.

The one thing that is certain is chaos. Death, disease, control for power, starvation, dehydration, lack of services, lack of electricity and communication...
Sounds like a party to me.... tell us more !
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Old 11-06-2010, 11:54 AM  
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We have lots of similarities. I'm medically retired from law enforcement at 54, and last year watched my youngest get her college degree in Biology. We are now empty nesters, but love it (except for the damn dogs keep us planted here instead of travelling around the nation!)
That's awsome !! You must be very proud of her.

sorry you got hurt...hopefully your healing well
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Old 11-06-2010, 05:01 PM  
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jacko, you really chose your house and your family's location based on a doomsday scenario.

you should write a book! I would read it in a second.
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Old 11-06-2010, 05:26 PM  
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Knoxville, TN
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jacko, you really chose your house and your family's location based on a doomsday scenario.

you should write a book! I would read it in a second.
Absolutely.

I lived in the Clearwater area of FL and have experienced on more than one occaision mandatory and voluntary evacuations. An area of urban sprawl, about 2500 sq miles and a population of about 2 million and no agriculture left. A death sentence to anyone remaining after a major event. The only way out is north, 2.5 hours on a good day and with one tank of gas the furthest I could get would be to Tifton GA. At the point of an event what fuel you have will be all you get unless you steal it.

Now I have land and I garden. I litterally back up to 10s of thousands of acres of national forrest to get lost in. The folks here are hearty, live off the land types, not all, but most will fight and have the wherewithall to do so.
Also, in the meantime my cost of living is a fraction of what it was there.


Major metros will be a death trap, famine, disease, riots, gangs.


Anything I type or respond to is a general statement with the hope that some will begin to pay attention and begin to look around them. I am not a doomsdayer per se.....just that the obvious is become too obvious.
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Old 11-06-2010, 05:31 PM  
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Originally Posted by jacko View Post
Absolutely.

I lived in the Clearwater area of FL and have experienced on more than one occaision mandatory and voluntary evacuations. An area of urban sprawl, about 2500 sq miles and a population of about 2 million and no agriculture left. A death sentence to anyone remaining after a major event. The only way out is north, 2.5 hours on a good day and with one tank of gas the furthest I could get would be to Tifton GA. At the point of an event what fuel you have will be all you get unless you steal it.

Now I have land and I garden. I litterally back up to 10s of thousands of acres of national forrest to get lost in. The folks here are hearty, live off the land types, not all, but most will fight and have the wherewithall to do so.
Also, in the meantime my cost of living is a fraction of what it was there.


Major metros will be a death trap, famine, disease, riots, gangs.


Anything I type or respond to is a general statement with the hope that some will begin to pay attention and begin to look around them. I am not a doomsdayer per se.....just that the obvious is become too obvious.

With all due respect man, I think you're about the most convinced "doomsdater" I've ever met/exchanged posts with.

Not that that's a bad thing or anything
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Old 11-06-2010, 08:42 PM  
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Mesa, Az
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Originally Posted by jacko View Post
New Orleans is a good case study.
All the services that most come to expect WILL NOT be in place during a major event. No police, no fire, no med aid early on, triage will be set up by volunteers several day after, much like it was in Haiti, but initially you will need to fend for yourself.

Further, just as police and fire fled to care for their own in NO so will it be on a national level. Consider jail and prison staff, most will flee their posts and officials will have to release the prison general population or let them die in their cells, nationally there will be about 2-3 million prisoners released with only a skeleton staff or military to care for the remaining high security prisoners. The public at large will have to deal with these people.
Many parts New Orleans were/are de facto Third World societies; call me racist here; but, the vast majority of that area's problems were in the Black ghettos-------and, those enclaves were a mess prior to Katrina.

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Originally Posted by jacko View Post
Something most don't think about, Gangs. Gangs like MS13 have infiltrated the military over the last decade for the purpose of being trained to fight, also prisons are a training ground for gangs. These folks are waiting for a major event to take place as to be able to fight for and take turf and power, you will be in the crossfire and they will you us for resupply.
Perhaps. For every soldier that is a possible traitor, I can say that 20-30, minimum, are true Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko View Post
Look to the south, 28K dead in Mexico in the last four years. These men, fighters, are very well trained, very well supplied, well beyond the fighters in the ME. The first thing they will do is move into the southern states and take control. 28K dead in the first week should be expected.
The Mexican drug gangs are laying very low here in the USA since it would turn Mexico proper into a killing field if the Zetas et al act stupid here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko View Post
US mil does not have the numbers to control the US general population and will be effectively impotent, even at 100% deployment in the states. This is impossible to accomplish even with all things in the govs favor. The one thing that they have is air superiority, air strikes cannot be ruled out, however, this will basicly be counterproductive and selfdefeting, but possible and will problably be used in a limited effort.
Just do not underestimate the American people just yet.

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Originally Posted by jacko View Post
In the midst of all this the one thing to watch for is countries like Russia to aid support not to the gov but to the Patriot, they will want a piece of the US when the dust settles.
Russia has a declining population.........they sure as hell would NOT want additional land to deal with.

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Originally Posted by jacko View Post
The one thing that is certain is chaos. Death, disease, control for power, starvation, dehydration, lack of services, lack of electricity and communication...
Anything is possible but; the Rule of Law still holds sway here, even after a disaster, war, etc.---------we would still be better off than 70-80% of the world today. Haiti was a textbook example of a failed society prior to its earthquake.
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:28 PM  
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Knoxville, TN
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ArizonaBear;35204]Many parts New Orleans were/are de facto Third World societies; call me racist here; but, the vast majority of that area's problems were in the Black ghettos-------and, those enclaves were a mess prior to Katrina.

That has nothing to do with how LEOs would react during an even here on a national level. What I am saying is: LEOs have families to attend to, and will. They will desert their post. There will be no effective LE.


Perhaps. For every soldier that is a possible traitor, I can say that 20-30, minimum, are true Americans

You misunderstand. Gangs, such as MS13, have their members inlist for the sole purpose to train and become familiar with weapon systems, tactics, strategies, etc... They bring their knowledge and skills home to the gangs and instruct them. They are prepared to fight for the gang's interest, not the American's interest.

The Mexican drug gangs are laying very low here in the USA since it would turn Mexico proper into a killing field if the Zetas et al act stupid here.

Once a major event takes place here they will move in, this is not a matter of 'stupid behavior', it's a matter of conquer.


Just do not underestimate the American people just yet.

I really don't understand the statement here....I do not underestimate...not at all. 3%, that's all there is, the rest will cower, no doubt at all.



Russia has a declining population.........they sure as hell would NOT want additional land to deal with.

You don't understand the thirst for power, a vacume WILL be filled, just a fact. I just mentioned Russia as they are the most obvious. China has the most interest but.....something tells me it won't be them. Venezuela would not hesitate to send small arms and ammo, not for a second, in case you did not know Russia just built a small arms plant there, they both have a vested interest in the failing of the US.

Anything is possible but; the Rule of Law still holds sway here, even after a disaster, war, etc.---------we would still be better off than 70-80% of the world today. Haiti was a textbook example of a failed society prior to its earthquake.

There is very little 'rule of law' left int this country. Marshal law will be ordered day one or two of the event. Internet will be shut down, Obama saw to it he had that power, dont' you remember? there will be no cell phone, all news will be controled propagana, this will lead to mass panic and confusion, then on to mass casualties.
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Old 11-06-2010, 10:19 PM  
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Mesa, Az
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jacko: the difference between us is you look at the glass half empty and I tend to look at things with more optimism-------------and, I am a cynical SOB.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:55 AM  
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Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
With all due respect man, I think you're about the most convinced "doomsdater" I've ever met/exchanged posts with.

Not that that's a bad thing or anything
There's a world of difference between someone who is perpetually down and fearful expecting and planning for a catastrophe and living his life around it, and someone who is a modern-day prepper who enjoys a lot more self-sufficient lifestyle than most other Americans, particularly those who live in urban settings. In the latter case, you come out ahead whether there are ever any problems or not.

Study history -- even recent history -- and learn from it. Then take steps to mitigate what happens to keep you and your family safe. To me, that's akin to buying an insurance policy; it's not been overly gloomy.
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