Go Back   CityProfile.com Forum - Local City and State Discussion Forums > General Discussion > National Politics / Debate
Click Here to Login

Reply
Old 08-15-2012, 11:33 AM  
Senior Member

Greenville, SC
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,141 | Kudos: +188
Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
... I understand that most of them "aren't a right like voting so it's okay"..
Quote:
Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
Voting is a right. It's not a privilege. ..........

YelloJeep, none of the things you described are guaranteed rights. From a constitutional standpoint, all are privileges, and you can be arbitrarily denied any of them. Not so for voting.
As you can see, I already covered that for you.... Nothing new there.

I understand what you are saying about the absentee ballot. Why not just let them write on a piece of paper saying "my name is_________ and I want my vote to go to__________". Why require anything more than that? Any kind of verification or application may be denying them of their right to vote, right???

That is essentially what we are doing. How can we require any voter registration? Heck, why even require a name?? If you can't prove it is who they say they are then why require them to say who they are? You see where this takes us? I just think that it is necessary.

Back to the things that aren't rights.... You say that but if you own a business try denying someone entry just because you feel like it.... Or try not having a handicap ramp out front......... Causes a gray area doesn't it? If they aren't rights then on what grounds do people sue EVERY DAY for these types of things. The "priveleges" you speak of.. Why do they require ID's? Is it because it isn't a right or some other reason? What is the reason? I just thinkit is foolish to act like there won't be any problems with blindly letting people vote without any checks at all. Oh, and "we don't see the problems so there must not be any.." That's stupid.
__________________

__________________
"A society that puts equality ... ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality nor freedom."

--Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012, 11:51 AM  
Senior Member

Greenville, SC
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,141 | Kudos: +188
Oh, and to exercise my right to keep and bear arms I have to buy a gun right? So, since it is a right should I not have to at least show an ID?
__________________

__________________
"A society that puts equality ... ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality nor freedom."

--Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012, 12:20 PM  
Senior Member

Kent, Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,237 | Kudos: +67
Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
As you can see, I already covered that for you.... Nothing new there.

I understand what you are saying about the absentee ballot. Why not just let them write on a piece of paper saying "my name is_________ and I want my vote to go to__________". Why require anything more than that? Any kind of verification or application may be denying them of their right to vote??
Nobody has argued that "any" sort of verification or application is unconstitutional. What's been argued is that
Quote:

That is essentially what we are doing. How can we require any voter registration? Heck, why even require a name?? If you can't prove it is who they say say they are then why require them to say who they are? You see where this takes us?


Please address the "I was mugged outside the polling place" argument. Prohibiting the victim of a mugging from casting a valid ballot is abhorrent and unconstitutional.

How about using DNA? Taking a sample of epithelial cells in lieu of the signature required today would solve the problem you think exists, without violating rights. Of course, it would be expensive as hell, but can we really complain about such an expense if it means we protect the rights of ALL citizens?
__________________
We work together every damn day. --Jon Stewart
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012, 12:28 PM  
Senior Member

Kent, Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,237 | Kudos: +67
Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
Oh, and to exercise my right to keep and bear arms I have to buy a gun right? So, since it is a right should I not have to at least show an ID?
I don't know the laws of your state, but I do know that I don't need ID to be given a gun. I don't need ID to inherit a gun. I don't need ID to purchase a gun from a private seller.

Perhaps you're in one of the few states that requires Firearm Ownership IDs. I believe such things to be unconstitutional.
__________________
We work together every damn day. --Jon Stewart
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012, 12:29 PM  
Senior Member

Greenville, SC
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,141 | Kudos: +188
Quote:
Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
Please address the "I was mugged outside the polling place" argument. Prohibiting the victim of a mugging from casting a valid ballot is abhorrent and unconstitutional.
What do you want me to say? "Well, in the event that maybe one person gets mugged in the parking lot, we should just let anyone vote"

Why don't you address my question as to why we don't just let people send in an envelope with it scribbled "my name is_________ and I want to vote for___________". That is the kind of checks you want, right? Oh, what if they don't have access to a mailbox? Maybe then if their friend can bring in the piece of paper that would be okay.... And while he's bringing that piece of paper, he can bring the slips of paper for his friend who is laid up in the hospital because he was mugged outside the polling place ....... So, now you have a guy (don't know who he is for sure, he said "my name is mickey mouse" but we can't ask for an ID....) bringing in a bag of slips of paper with names and votes written on them... Great. Rock solid right there..


Okay, seriously... You think a scenario where I could potentially walk into a polling place, say my name is Hulio Eglasius and cast a vote is okay? And I don't have an ID because I was mugged outside. Is that the scenario you are proposing is best? Err on the side of no checks whatsoever?
__________________
"A society that puts equality ... ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality nor freedom."

--Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012, 12:34 PM  
Senior Member

Greenville, SC
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,141 | Kudos: +188
Quote:
Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
I don't know the laws of your state, but I do know that I don't need ID to be given a gun. I don't need ID to inherit a gun. I don't need ID to purchase a gun from a private seller.

Perhaps you're in one of the few states that requires Firearm Ownership IDs. I believe such things to be unconstitutional.
If I go to the store and try to buy a gun then yes, they will ask for an ID. If it is a handgun they will do a background check.
__________________
"A society that puts equality ... ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality nor freedom."

--Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012, 03:12 PM  
Senior Member

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,892 | Kudos: +92
Again, the only way to know who is not qualified to vote (or even to be in this country) is by an ID check. If IDs are too easy to counterfeit then we need better IDs rather than ignoring the problem.
__________________
I remember when power tools and small appliances had flexible cords.
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2012, 03:46 PM  
Senior Member

Kent, Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,237 | Kudos: +67
Quote:
Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
What do you want me to say? "Well, in the event that maybe one person gets mugged in the parking lot, we should just let anyone vote"

Why don't you address my question as to why we don't just let people send in an envelope with it scribbled "my name is_________ and I want to vote for___________". That is the kind of checks you want, right? Oh, what if they don't have access to a mailbox? Maybe then if their friend can bring in the piece of paper that would be okay.... And while he's bringing that piece of paper, he can bring the slips of paper for his friend who is laid up in the hospital because he was mugged outside the polling place ....... So, now you have a guy (don't know who he is for sure, he said "my name is mickey mouse" but we can't ask for an ID....) bringing in a bag of slips of paper with names and votes written on them... Great. Rock solid right there..
I've never suggested that registration shouldn't be required. Registration is important because it won't just be national-level issues on the ballot, but also state and local level issues that may impact residents of neighboring states or localities. A voter in Baltimore is not an eligible voter in Washington DC.
Quote:


Okay, seriously... You think a scenario where I could potentially walk into a polling place, say my name is Hulio Eglasius and cast a vote is okay? And I don't have an ID because I was mugged outside. Is that the scenario you are proposing is best? Err on the side of no checks whatsoever?
If you've registered as Hulio Eglasius, and can confirm the address that you registered with, then yes, you should be allowed to vote.

I haven't been discussing requirements for registration. I've been discussing requirements for voting. I'm not limited to a 12-hour period to REGISTER in person at my polling place. If the elections board needs me to produce additional proof of eligibility and I need a week to come up with the additional documentation, my name will still end up on the books, and I'll be able to vote come November.
__________________
We work together every damn day. --Jon Stewart
Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 06:13 AM  
Senior Member

Greenville, SC
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,141 | Kudos: +188
Quote:
Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
I've never suggested that registration shouldn't be required. Registration is important because it won't just be national-level issues on the ballot, but also state and local level issues that may impact residents of neighboring states or localities. A voter in Baltimore is not an eligible voter in Washington DC.


If you've registered as Hulio Eglasius, and can confirm the address that you registered with, then yes, you should be allowed to vote.

I haven't been discussing requirements for registration. I've been discussing requirements for voting. I'm not limited to a 12-hour period to REGISTER in person at my polling place. If the elections board needs me to produce additional proof of eligibility and I need a week to come up with the additional documentation, my name will still end up on the books, and I'll be able to vote come November.
Back to the premise that voting is a right so anything that prevents the ability to vote should be avoided.. Let's say someone is homeless... Or lives under a bridge in a certain state. Has no ID. How is he to register? Should he be allowed to vote? Where do you draw the line?

Also, I don't remember what it took to register. Only an address? Maybe some other stuff... Don't know. But I'll bet that there are other things in addition to being homeless that could prevent meeting the requirements.

Oh, and I mentioned this discussion to my wife (or at least that there are folks out there that don't think an ID should be required due to prohibiting the exercise the right to vote..) She said something interesting as a response to the costs associated with getting an ID and it not being right to have any cost associated to practicing a right....

She said: "We have the right to bear arms and if you can't afford to buy a gun should we GIVE people guns so they can practice the right? That's ridiculous." I thought it was a good response!
__________________
"A society that puts equality ... ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality nor freedom."

--Milton Friedman (1912-2006)
Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2012, 11:02 PM  
Senior Member

Kent, Ohio
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,237 | Kudos: +67
No, we shouldn't give them guns. Should we require that the produce ID in order to inherit them? Should we prohibit a person from being given a gift of a firearm because they don't have a government ID?

A government ID requires exact proof of age, address, citizenship. Why does a 40-something need to prove his age?

That's one point: the requirements for av government ID are not exactly the same as for voting eligibility.
__________________

__________________
We work together every damn day. --Jon Stewart
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   CityProfile.com Forum - Local City and State Discussion Forums > General Discussion > National Politics / Debate
Bookmark this Page!

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Suggested Threads

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.