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Old 05-23-2011, 09:16 AM  
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Why big government is not the answer.

Let me just give a small hint as to why more government is not the answer:

A charitable group established a shelter to get the homeless off the street. All was well and the people were happy until the government discovered the operation. Then came the requirements, handicap access, sprinklers, fire extinguishers, number of square feet per occupant, and the list goes on. Bottom line the cost to operate increased beyond available funds so back to the street for the occupants.

Now consider the Obamacare impact on small businesses and you may begin to get the picture. Unions and minimum wage have done their bit for the demise of freedom as well.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:22 AM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
Let me just give a small hint as to why more government is not the answer:

A charitable group established a shelter to get the homeless off the street. All was well and the people were happy until the government discovered the operation. Then came the requirements, handicap access, sprinklers, fire extinguishers, number of square feet per occupant, and the list goes on. Bottom line the cost to operate increased beyond available funds so back to the street for the occupants.

.
Could you tell us specifically the organization mentioned? Could be more to it than meets the eye. These days, whenever you house lots of people in a structure, you must have sprinklers for instance and some of these regulations are a state matter or even local, and as a builder, I can tell you that I strongly believe in codes and ordinances. It's in many ways a pain in the butt, however, it serves to protect the consumer or in this case, the homeless. I've done a lot of retrofits for the government regarding handicap and disabled accessability. A person hates it when things get complicated and expensive, but in terms of public safety and access to all, the fact is, that you need regulations, otherwise people can be affected in unseen ways. Getting back on topic..... Are you a Dem?
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:52 AM  
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Originally Posted by Musicinabottle View Post
Could you tell us specifically the organization mentioned? Could be more to it than meets the eye. These days, whenever you house lots of people in a structure, you must have sprinklers for instance and some of these regulations are a state matter or even local, and as a builder, I can tell you that I strongly believe in codes and ordinances. It's in many ways a pain in the butt, however, it serves to protect the consumer or in this case, the homeless. I've done a lot of retrofits for the government regarding handicap and disabled accessability. A person hates it when things get complicated and expensive, but in terms of public safety and access to all, the fact is, that you need regulations, otherwise people can be affected in unseen ways. Getting back on topic..... Are you a Dem?
Nope, not a dem!

I can't cite the group to draw attention as as they may be operating under the radar in smaller capacity now. The question is which is safer the streets or reasonable shelter? The government forced the streets.

BTW, I am a retired professional engineer.
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Old 05-23-2011, 06:50 PM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
Nope, not a dem!

I can't cite the group to draw attention as as they may be operating under the radar in smaller capacity now. The question is which is safer the streets or reasonable shelter? The government forced the streets.

BTW, I am a retired professional engineer.
Not sure what professional engineer has to do with it, but my point is simply this...... At one time, there were no such things as laws or building codes. As we had earthquakes, fires, tornados and faulty building practices, the government became involved to help stem the tide of deaths from lack of planning. Is this a bad thing? All depends. Me? In light of such things as the Titanic disaster..... I applaud regulations, even if they are a pain in the butt. The government involvement in matters of public safety and consumer protections and just plain regulation of even the simplest of things, such as traffic laws and stoplights simply must be, no matter how much you hate big government, you have to have some sort of direction. The little community homeless shelter is great, until someone dies or is injured through a stupid oversight that could have easily been prevented. Then the fingers start getting pointed.
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:33 PM  
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I'm convinced.... I would rather live in a cardboard box in an alley than a shelter without a sprinkler system......
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Old 05-23-2011, 07:49 PM  
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Well, if one must be simplistic in their thinking like Perry, just Perry, then a box will always work! At the other end, in the real world, it gets more complicated than that. I ain't saying I approve of it, it just is.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:04 PM  
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Now consider the Obamacare impact on small businesses and you may begin to get the picture. Unions and minimum wage have done their bit for the demise of freedom as well.
Freedom of what?
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:09 PM  
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Here we go again! In my opinion, good wages begat freedom, and killing good wages takes away freedom. In another light anyway.
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:10 PM  
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Freedom of what?
Corporate Americas freedom to make a friggin killing!
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Old 05-23-2011, 08:30 PM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
I can't cite the group to draw attention as as they may be operating under the radar in smaller capacity now. The question is which is safer the streets or reasonable shelter? The government forced the streets....
sure......

I'll agree some restrictions are over zealous but generally building and occupancy laws have greatly reduced deaths and property damage.

now one of the biggest problems with homelessness comes down to cost, and in many areas building tenement style buildings is illegal due to square footage and other building codes.

your example could be used of any business, but what happens when things DO go bad? did you see what happened in haiti when developers were able to buy off officials to build whatever they wanted regardless of how unsafe? a relatively minor earthquake created massive destruction and an incredible number of deaths.

healthcare is a bit of a different beast, but C+ for trying. Since the bill includes avenues for anyone to be covered it is very hard to try and compare the two. Sure If we removed all regulations like the republicans want I am sure I could buy something labeled a health plan for cheap, but when I actually needed it I would find I was living in a house held together by bailing wire and duct tape as the coverage wouldn't cover much if anything when I needed it to.

over 50 years of government intrusion into the safety of our cars (which would you rather be in?):

but you might say, but automotive technology has improved, all cars are safer..... well in china they don't have such strict standards and the automakers just build what is required and what people buy

so why are our cars safer? because cars in the u.s. and europe must meet certain safety standards and people know the tests are done fairly for each car so the information is worth something. same goes for housing, healthcare, loans, the government has it's place although it should be limited in scope, it does have it's place.
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