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Old 12-10-2010, 10:21 AM  
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Phoenix, Arizona
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
Hah WOW.

Yeah, a ploy. Because it's ridiculous for a voter to just naturally be worried about the most drug and corruption-filled country in the world pouring immigrants over our borders - it'd have to an election year for us to notice, right?

And the numbers are there to back up Phoenix's kidnappings... what else do you want? Do you want me to go take pictures of all the people that were kidnapped?
I may have been a bit harsh in my posting, but this is the reason. It boils my blood that a politician can be proven a liar, but his constituents still believe his bullcrap.

Here's the list of cities that give the kidnapping insurance agencies the most activity:
Mexico City, Caracas, Venezuela, and Tegucigalpa, Honduras.

Or listen to Scott Stewart, vice president of tactical intelligence for Stratfor, an Austin-based global intelligence company: "According to our analysts, there is no way that Phoenix is the No. 2 city in the world for kidnapping and there are significantly more kidnappings in many other cities throughout Latin America," he said. "San Salvador, Guatemala City, Bogota as well as several cities in Mexico certainly have higher kidnapping rates than Phoenix." This is a guy who deals with kidnapping every day. It's his job to be involved.

All that said, you have to realize that kidnappings are greatly under reported, and many countries don't track them statistically at all, and thus aren't even going to be on any list when they might rank #1.

Phoenix is a great city, and while we have our share of "big city" problems, we're still far better off than most other big US cities, much less globally.

On top of that Mexico is hardly the most drug filled corrupted country in the world. It's not even the worst in Latin America. It's just the worst country that shares a border with us. There's far worse in the middle east (think Al-queda sponsored poppy farms in Afghanistan), Africa(Somolia... nuff said.), and South America (remember the Columbian drug wars?).

So, to blindly claim there are numbers, because you were told so, is simply short sited given the evidence. It's not your fault that you were lied to, it happens every day. It would be your fault to continue to perpetuate these falsehoods given better data.
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Old 12-10-2010, 06:06 PM  
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Originally Posted by HexKrak View Post
I may have been a bit harsh in my posting, but this is the reason. It boils my blood that a politician can be proven a liar, but his constituents still believe his bullcrap.

Here's the list of cities that give the kidnapping insurance agencies the most activity:
Mexico City, Caracas, Venezuela, and Tegucigalpa, Honduras.

Or listen to Scott Stewart, vice president of tactical intelligence for Stratfor, an Austin-based global intelligence company: "According to our analysts, there is no way that Phoenix is the No. 2 city in the world for kidnapping and there are significantly more kidnappings in many other cities throughout Latin America," he said. "San Salvador, Guatemala City, Bogota as well as several cities in Mexico certainly have higher kidnapping rates than Phoenix." This is a guy who deals with kidnapping every day. It's his job to be involved.

All that said, you have to realize that kidnappings are greatly under reported, and many countries don't track them statistically at all, and thus aren't even going to be on any list when they might rank #1.

Phoenix is a great city, and while we have our share of "big city" problems, we're still far better off than most other big US cities, much less globally.

On top of that Mexico is hardly the most drug filled corrupted country in the world. It's not even the worst in Latin America. It's just the worst country that shares a border with us. There's far worse in the middle east (think Al-queda sponsored poppy farms in Afghanistan), Africa(Somolia... nuff said.), and South America (remember the Columbian drug wars?).

So, to blindly claim there are numbers, because you were told so, is simply short sited given the evidence. It's not your fault that you were lied to, it happens every day. It would be your fault to continue to perpetuate these falsehoods given better data.
^this




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Old 12-11-2010, 01:37 AM  
mohel
 
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"On top of that Mexico is hardly the most drug filled corrupted country in the world. It's not even the worst in Latin America. It's just the worst country that shares a border with us. There's far worse in the middle east (think Al-queda sponsored poppy farms in Afghanistan), "

Opium has been an Easter crop since the Opium Wars long before Al Qaeda. Opium dens were Chinese later imported to our West Coast.

I doubt it's used much in Afghanistan. Taliban hate addicts and I'm pretty sure it's against Islamic law.

Most Afghans couldn't afford a drug that is worth gold when exported. The whole drug mess approaches the surreal. Wikileaks prove it's Saudi money funding Al Qaeda who among other things act as middle men marketing the opium.
The US can't destroy the poppy fields because it's the only crop many have. The whole country would rise against us. Brits had 3 Afghan Wars and lost all three.
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Old 12-11-2010, 03:39 AM  
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Originally Posted by blucher View Post
"On top of that Mexico is hardly the most drug filled corrupted country in the world. It's not even the worst in Latin America. It's just the worst country that shares a border with us. There's far worse in the middle east (think Al-queda sponsored poppy farms in Afghanistan), "

Opium has been an Easter crop since the Opium Wars long before Al Qaeda. Opium dens were Chinese later imported to our West Coast.

I doubt it's used much in Afghanistan. Taliban hate addicts and I'm pretty sure it's against Islamic law.

Most Afghans couldn't afford a drug that is worth gold when exported. The whole drug mess approaches the surreal. Wikileaks prove it's Saudi money funding Al Qaeda who among other things act as middle men marketing the opium.
The US can't destroy the poppy fields because it's the only crop many have. The whole country would rise against us. Brits had 3 Afghan Wars and lost all three.


Just one thing I have to disagree with is that Afghans/Iraqi's don't use it. I'm in the Corps, and I work with a lot of Marines who were in the first invasion of Fallujah. The insurgents were, and still do, commonly use speed, heroin, and any other drug they can get their hands on so than when they get shot they don't feel it. It's sad, and yes it's supposed to be totally against their religion, but it's widely used.
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Old 12-12-2010, 12:35 PM  
mohel
 
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"The insurgents were, and still do, commonly use speed, heroin, and any other drug they can get their hands on so than when they get shot they don't feel it. It's sad, and yes it's supposed to be totally against their religion, but it's widely used. "

Thanks, I wasn't aware the lowlifes were as hypocritical as our other religions. <joke> Actually I'd be hard pressed to find a religious belief system with more hypocrisy.

If anyone is reading the leaked cable read the one where Saudis are funding terrorism and explain to me why oil trumps truth.
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Old 12-12-2010, 03:56 PM  
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Originally Posted by blucher View Post
"The insurgents were, and still do, commonly use speed, heroin, and any other drug they can get their hands on so than when they get shot they don't feel it. It's sad, and yes it's supposed to be totally against their religion, but it's widely used. "

Thanks, I wasn't aware the lowlifes were as hypocritical as our other religions. <joke> Actually I'd be hard pressed to find a religious belief system with more hypocrisy.

If anyone is reading the leaked cable read the one where Saudis are funding terrorism and explain to me why oil trumps truth.
Because we need oil, we don't need truth.
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:24 AM  
mohel
 
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Because we need oil, we don't need truth.
Reminds me of a saying (may be Russian), "the man who tells the truth is chased out of 10 villages".
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:25 AM  
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Because oil prices have gone down since the war started? Hah, I love the oil argument.
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Old 12-14-2010, 12:56 PM  
mohel
 
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Because oil prices have gone down since the war started? Hah, I love the oil argument.
Frankly I get a kick out of anyone actually believing the intent was to lower oil prices. Big Oil was always the intended benefactor.
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Old 12-14-2010, 01:48 PM  
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Ahhh, so we went to war so a few guys at the top could make some extra money, is that it? Really?
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