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Old 05-09-2011, 03:23 PM  
mohel
 
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The first son-of-god, savior born of a virgin, crucifiction story was scrolled in ancient Egypt 3000 years before the Jewish version.
PBS usually has something on that interests me. Some stuff not so much so their recent interest in Zoroastrianism while not met by my enthusiasm was at least interesting to learn.

I learned that India can trace their creation myth back to it's origin which seemed to imply others could not or the trail of breadcrumbs had gaps. I also discovered several of our "modern" religions are curiously similar to Zoroastrian beliefs and practices.

Does this surprise anyone? Most structures evolve over time and religions do too as the reformation certainly attests.

I feel like we're chasing our respective tails and the reason is always that some group wants to use our state (USA) to impose their religious beliefs on the rest of us. If you were a Shia Arab would you want a Sunni run state?

You may not do that. We are a *secular* country. (for a bunch of Puritanically messed up types that may grind a bit but it's the law of the land)
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Old 05-09-2011, 04:55 PM  
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Originally Posted by Dorph View Post
You don't think someone is at least a little bit foolish if they have convinced themselves that a 2000 year old story about virgin birth, walking on water, turning water into fine wine, feeding 6000-8000 hungry folks with two fish and five loaves then gathering twelve baskets of leftovers, healing leprosy by touching, raising from the dead, hanging a man on a tree, bleeding him like a hog for half a day only to see him fit as a fiddle two days later, etc. etc. etc. is the only path to salvation in an eternal life which occurs after they're dead?

The Jews wrote all that stuff and they don't even believe it.

Anyone who willingly gives part of their money to ensure a promise of something which is supposed to happen to them after they are dead should do some really detailed soul searching. Instead of reading the new testament they should try doing a thorough research project on all religions. The first son-of-god, savior born of a virgin, crucifiction story was scrolled in ancient Egypt 3000 years before the Jewish version.
Until we are in a position of power it pays to be nice, don't forget we are more hated than less understood than any other group.
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Old 05-09-2011, 05:53 PM  
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Originally Posted by Funetical View Post
Until we are in a position of power it pays to be nice, don't forget we are more hated than less understood than any other group.
There are some things I resent till today. I resented my maternal grandmother repeatedly telling me that "Ol Scratch Will Get You" when I was very young and did something not to her liking. I resented my third and fourth grade teachers requiring me to memorize bible verses and recite them to the class. I was repulsed when my preacher offered to get me ordained as a Baptist minister to avoid the draft and when I went to the service instead of taking him up on the deal I think that proved it. That was in August, 1957.

I lived in the church family until I was over sixty. I used to watch others during a sermon and wonder if they really believed all that stuff or if some of them were like me and had doubted it's validity all my life. When I took my final stand about sixteen years ago parts of my own family all but disowned me. It has mellowed some but the subject of religion and Christianity is purposefully avoided.
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Old 05-10-2011, 12:27 PM  
mohel
 
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I lived in the church family until I was over sixty. I used to watch others during a sermon and wonder if they really believed all that stuff or if some of them were like me and had doubted it's validity all my life. When I took my final stand about sixteen years ago parts of my own family all but disowned me. It has mellowed some but the subject of religion and Christianity is purposefully avoided.
I wondered those same things. In college I had Jesuits so I asked even more questions. The answers always seemed awkward and frequently unearthed doubts in others.

Sometimes I wonder if atheists are paying attention because the existence of something godlike seems obvious. I think they might be confusing religion with God which in my experience is very unfair to God.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:20 PM  
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Originally Posted by blucher View Post
I wondered those same things. In college I had Jesuits so I asked even more questions. The answers always seemed awkward and frequently unearthed doubts in others.

Sometimes I wonder if atheists are paying attention because the existence of something godlike seems obvious. I think they might be confusing religion with God which in my experience is very unfair to God.
The term "god" is defined broadly enough that it could incorporate any number of beliefs. Many organizations rely on this sort of broad definition as a means of encouraging diversity and tolerance. The Boy Scouts, for instance, require a belief in god (A Scout is Reverent) but leave the definition of "god" up to the individual scout. From a logical standpoint, the entire requirement of Reverence is therefore irrelevant. "My definition of god is the concept of nonexistence of deities."

I had several arguments with a person a few years ago. This person believed that the sum of everything in existence was God. To him, atheism and nihilism were synonymous. (And using his definition, I wouldn't consider myself an atheist. Using his definition, "Nature" is synonymous with "God", and would be the term I'd use instead)

Atheism is NOT the denial of reality. Atheism is skepticism. Atheism is characterized not by disproof, but by demand for proof. Atheism is the idea that Thor isn't wielding a giant hammer somewhere up in the sky. He's not forging lightning bolts and shooting them into the ground from his death fortress.

There is room in the atheist's mind for awe, wonder, and fascination in the exploration of reality. We simply prefer terms like "existence" and "nature" over terms like "creation" and "god" when we discuss that reality, due to the imprecise nature of the latter terms.
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:42 AM  
mohel
 
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Atheism is the idea that Thor isn't wielding a giant hammer somewhere up in the sky. He's not forging lightning bolts and shooting them into the ground from his death fortress.
Wut????

I was raised on Aasgard & Valhalla. Don't you be knockin Odin and the boys. Violent Norwegians drunk on too much lutefisk make more sense than an ark full of Dinosaurs.


Kentucky creationism theme park set to open in 2014 will “include dinosaurs”
Creationism has been criticized by many scientists and science organizations. The National Center for Science Education asserts that “students who accept this material as scientifically valid are unlikely to succeed in science courses at the college level.”

There’s a reason Kentucky elected a senator, Rand Paul, who, when asked “how old is the world,” answered, “I think I’m just gonna have to pass on that one.” Yesterday, Kentucky’s governor Steve Beshear announced that a creationism theme park — called “Ark Encounter” — is planned for 2014.

Quote:
The Creationist Theme Park is looking for... tax incentives. With Beshear's blessing.
Published on December, 01 2010

Thought this disgusting affair with the new Intellectual Child Abuse Theme Park in Kentucky couldn't get any worse, what with Governor Steve Beshear standing with them at their press conference this morning? Think again.
They're getting tax breaks.
(or, at least trying, with STeve Beshear's blessing): FRANKFORT, Ky.
— Operators of the popular Creation Museum in Northern Kentucky are seeking state tax incentives to build a creationism theme park at a nearby site — a project that Gov. Steve Beshear officially will announce Wednesday...
HTML Code:
http://www.liquida.com/article/14022660/steve-beshear-creation-museum-frankfort/

Under the picture of an ark with a dinosaur in the attic a viewer wrote;

"I especially liked the picture of the "Ark" with the dinosaur's neck and head sticking out the top. I thought that, according to "Creationists", God created the fossils of dinosaurs 6,000 years ago, and that the actual dinosaurs never actually existed. Also, if dinosaurs were saved by Noah on the "Ark" why aren't they still around today?
It is amazing how so many people are able to totally ignore facts which don't match their preconceptions and who feel it necessary to revise those facts in order to protect those preconceptions."
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Atheist?-noahsark-full-length-flyer.jpg 


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Old 05-11-2011, 03:37 PM  
mohel
 
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Friday, December 3, 2010
Kentucky will soon have a Creationist Theme Park
From MSNBC.com
I don't make any of this stuff up. I just copy and paste.

FRANKFORT, Ky. ? A huge replica of Noah's Ark and an 800-acre creationist theme park reportedly are coming to Grant County, Ky., according to NBC station WLEX.


Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear and Answers in Genesis, builders of the Creation Museum in Petersburg, Ky., are expected to unveil plans Wednesday for the $150 million northern Kentucky attraction, WLEX and other area news outlets reported.
The ark and theme park are expected to attract 1.6 million visitors annually, WLEX said. The operation is expected to create 900 jobs. That doesn't count employment at new restaurants and hotels expected to complement the park.

We are now doomed to see every new car wash, taco stand and whorehouse in terms of "jobs created and saved", thanks to our economically illiterate Porker In Chief. Here's a hint: Prosperity isn't created by increasing the number of jobs. It is created by saving time. But I digress....

..The museum and private investors have been looking at several spots around the county, but efforts to place the park in Grant County have been under way at least for 18 months, officials told WLEX.

The Creation Museum, opened in May 2007 about seven miles from the Cincinnati-northern Kentucky airport, was estimated to draw about 250,000 visitors per year but surpassed 1 million visitors in less than three years, the Cincinnati Enquirer reported.
Exhibits represent the views of Apologetics Ministry, including the belief that the Earth is only about 7,000 years old and that dinosaurs were among the creatures on Noah?s ark.
HTML Code:
http://thewhitedsepulchre.blogspot.com/2010/12/kentucky-will-soon-have-creationist.html
**************


HTML Code:
http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/005203.html
Quote:
As of 11:59 and 59 seconds (Pacific Time) last night, the "Drag Scalzi's Ass to the Creation Museum" donation drive raised $5,118.36. That's 256 times the admission price to Creation Museum, a multiple I find both amusing (from a dork point of view) and gratifying, since it means what tiny bit of income the creationists running the museum gain by having me pass through the door will be utterly swamped by the amount I'm going to send to Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. Would that it worked that way for every admission to that place.

For those of you who were wondering, some statistics: The first milestone for this fundraiser, the $250 to get me to go at all, got passed within the first hour of posting the challenge. The $1000 mark got passed about 12 hours later. The $5,000 marker got passed last night sometime between 6 and 11pm, while I was out on a date with my wife, celebrating our anniversary. I'm particularly pleased about hitting the $5k mark. The least amount donated was $1; the most was $300. More than one person donated more than $250, usually with the notation "Ha! Now you HAVE to go!" Multiples and variations of $6.66 were amusingly common, although the $5 suggested amount was the amount most received.

To be honest with you all, I had no idea how this thing would do, so I was intensely curious about it. To be clear, I didn't really think there would be a problem hitting the $250 mark; there are about 25,000 daily visitors, and I figured at least 1% of you would be ready to spend a buck or two to torture me by sending me to that place. I also suspected that I'd get $1,000 over the course of a week, and probably more. My own estimate when I started was that it'd eventually clock in between $1,500 and $2,000, and if I got any more than that I would be thrilled. So, consider me doubly to triply thrilled.

As promised, everyone who has contributed will receive two special gifts: A short story and another creative thingie, to be delivered by e-mail. I'll post notes here when I send them out, so those of you who contributed who don't then receive the goodies may ping me, so I can get them to you. I'm all about customer service.

Also, of course, I will (sigh) soon be on my way to the Creation Museum, to view it in all its scientific silliness. Some folks have asked if I would share my intended arrival date and time, so we can congregate en mass and generally become a snarky clot of heathens. As fun as that might be, until they kicked us out, the fact of the matter is that if I'm going to do this, and I am, I want to be able to do it in reportorial mode, which means watching other people in their (heh) natural setting. Also, I don't want them to see me coming. So, I'm going to make the trip alone, or possibly with my family. Perhaps at some other time we can do a heathen field trip, and see how long it takes us to get booted. But for now, well. You guys just shelled out five grand. I think I owe you an actual report.

Thank you again to everyone who donated, even though it means me dragging my ass down to that damn place. The amount we've raised for the separation of church and state is worth it. I'm glad you were motivated to shell out for the Constitution. And also, to torture me. Because, let's face it. I know you're looking forward to that.

Finally: Jude, you've won the betting pool for the final amount, with your guess of $5,002.25. E-mail me your address.
Posted by john at June 16, 2007 12:13 PM



Quote:
And I thought, "Why bother?" Sure it might be fun. But mostly it would be annoying. And who wants to pay $19.95 to be annoyed? Let me give an example. The museum asserts that dinosaurs existed in the garden and because the garden was created "very good" all animals would have been vegetarians. It wasn't until after the "fall" that dinosaurs got a taste for blood. And yet, they then proceed to claim that dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark. Well, this takes place well after the fall. I shudder to think of what carnage took place on that tiny ark. Maybe that's when the unicorns met their demise.

Indeed, The foundational premise of the museum is flawed. The museum purports to take the creation account as found in Genesis as literally and factually true. That is, that God created the world in six 24-hour days on a planet just 6,000 years old. But that only takes into account Genesis chapter 1. Before you get halfway through Genesis chapter 2, even the most literal Bible reader should be left with their unevolved brain spinning. Because, you see, Genesis chapter 2 contains a wholly different explanation for the creation of the world:
HTML Code:
http://unrulymob.blogspot.com/2007_05_01_archive.html




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Old 05-19-2011, 03:08 PM  
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I would suppose that this coming Sunday all the churches will be empty? I did ask a few faithful if they would mind placing all their cash in my bank account. I had no takers. Faith?

I cannot wait to hear the excuse why this Saturday nothing happened.

Atheist bless you Steven Hawking!
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Old 05-19-2011, 05:31 PM  
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I would suppose that this coming Sunday all the churches will be empty? I did ask a few faithful if they would mind placing all their cash in my bank account. I had no takers. Faith?

I cannot wait to hear the excuse why this Saturday nothing happened.

Atheist bless you Steven Hawking!
I'm confused now by the above post. Is the world ending this Saturday or is Jesus returning...as in the rapture? From Saftey's post you'd think all Christians will have been raptured by his expecting churches to be empty. I don't want to reference the "Just How Stupid Are Atheist" thread again but, not all Christians will be raptured. So, to expect churches to be empty on Sunday is as infantile a statement as one that assumes only Christians go to church! Churches are full of non-believers! In fact, I'm compelled to believe that "churches", WORLDWIDE, will be packed immediately during and after the rapture, and for the entire tribulation period to follow. It is a reasonable human condition to doubt and to desire to live. Just for grins......lets say the rapture occurs today and EVERY NON BELIEVER witnesses the event. Do you really think they will be concerned with dinner plans? There is a point where the heart (belief) meets the brain (intellect). For some it is sooner than later..some before it's too late and some after it's too late. Intellectually I struggle with many of the "things" non believers reject. Fortunately I feel blessed that my intellect does not preclude my heart so my belief can have an opportunity to grow.

As for the "excuses"...there will be none from Christians. A true Christian knows that the day of rapture is unknown, and the rapture will be a good thing ......but that's a whole other thread.

My confusion lies in that I thought that the planet was to go through a cataclysmic occurrence on the 21st. Something to do with earth quakes, eruptions, tectonic plate realignment, polar opposition positioning.....stuff like that. Where did the Jesus/Christian thing get inserted?

Also, God bless Steven Hawking!
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Old 05-19-2011, 06:31 PM  
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Hillman,

I trust that you are correct and the religion you have faith in is the right one. You see I live in the middle of a whole neighborhood of Southern Baptists and they pray for me all the time to be with them in the Rapture. I go to their Bar-B-Ques! Great chicken and Potato salad. I will miss them Sunday. As for those who do not believe in the Rapture, do you all have picnics and such? I ask because according to my friends if you don't believe as they do and you are still here Sunday, well let's just say they don't have good things for you!

By the way Hillman, Jesus loves me too or at least I have been told he does. The Mormon's tell me I will have a chance to accept their religion one more time after I die. I would hope at that point I would give in and become a member.

I surly hope the Muslims are wrong.

Well whatever you believe in I am glad you can. I went to Vietnam and then served 18 more years to support your right to believe as you do. Won't you return the favor?
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