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Old 06-10-2011, 03:31 PM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
It couldn't be stated better.
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Old 06-10-2011, 03:44 PM  
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Hang in there Jake! I admire you being outnumbered standing for God against the world. Just remember that you and God make a majority.
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Old 06-10-2011, 03:46 PM  
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Originally Posted by Old-Goat View Post
It couldn't be stated better.
as opposed to there was nothing but somehow god appeared and controled everything, god then created the universe waited over 4 billion years and then told some desert people how to live (but not the other people) (and recommended they cut off their foreskins to prove their allegience to him) without giving anything complex enough to prove a god like knowledge, and has intended to come back any day now......

god can see all, sees the suffering but doesn't care but still wants you to live according to what people said about him 2000 years ago and not think critically for yourself about the universe, etc.....

so the only logical answer is a magical being existed in the nothingness and got bored and created everything... ok sure.....
yes that is logical
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Old 06-10-2011, 03:50 PM  
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Originally Posted by Old-Goat View Post
Hang in there Jake! I admire you being outnumbered standing for God against the world. Just remember that you and God make a majority.
I'm pretty sure 1 plus 0 still equals 1, even for mythical values of 0.

what solid indisputable evidence is there for god? exactly nothing, it's a belief created by man, nothing more.
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Old 06-10-2011, 06:58 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
I'm pretty sure 1 plus 0 still equals 1, even for mythical values of 0.

what solid indisputable evidence is there for god? exactly nothing, it's a belief created by man, nothing more.
Now that's not very DIVINE at all but I have a different slant on this conundrum. It's entirely possible God indeed sent a message or two on his druthers but 2000 years of self serving editing has garbled the message.

Quote:
Back in the day, no self-respecting televangelist would have medical doctors on their shows, unless they were shilling a fake miracle. TBN has Dr. Reginald Cherry on their network as a regular program. Cherry is a real Board certified medical doctor who heavily endorses alternative forms of treatment. (3) He is the doctor to the charismatic elite, especially Jan Crouch. Naturally on his program and web site he panders his brands of nutritional supplements and makes the following claims concerning them:

God has now given us the knowledge to take extracts from the various substances He created and formulate advanced nutritional supplements to address the major health concerns that threaten us today. God has instructed me to formulate a daily, high potency nutritional supplement along with a family of specialty supplements based on specific conditions to help the body of Christ in these last days. (4)
Jan Crouch ? Discernment Ministries International

Quote:
"The church began as a movement in Jerusalem. It became a philosophy in Greece, an institution in Rome, a culture in Europe, and when it came to America, it became a business...a highly profitable business. But God is coming back for a movement.

L. Ron Hubbard (Founder of Scientology) once said "Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wanted to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion." While our modern day evangelists have not started their own religion, they have unquestionably improved on Hubbard?s idea. Capitalizing on Christianity has proved to be far more lucrative than starting a new religion. But as the Bible tells us.. evil men and impostors shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2Timothy 3:13
Tele-Evangelist Lifestyles

Jan's Mansion
Bachmann's Stance on Evolution Demolished-amfund2000_50.jpg 

Bachmann's Stance on Evolution Demolished-jet.jpg 

Bachmann's Stance on Evolution Demolished-jancrouch2.jpg 

Bachmann's Stance on Evolution Demolished-jancrouchisperfect.jpg 

Bachmann's Stance on Evolution Demolished-jancrouch.jpg 

Bachmann's Stance on Evolution Demolished-jan-crouch-1-.jpg 

Bachmann's Stance on Evolution Demolished-jan-crouch.jpg 




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Old 06-10-2011, 07:04 PM  
mohel
 
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Introduction
Most of the people on this page made their millions by preaching the Prosperity doctrine, which is the Word-Faith/Positive Confession movement applied to finances. It is centered around the idea that although Christians should keep one eye on Heaven, the good news is that God doesn't want His people to wait until then to inherit His blessings.

It is deeply alarming that most Christians seem to be blissfully unaware of the fact that the principles of the Word-Faith movement being trumpeted from pulpits across the land, stems from the same occult sources as the spiritual movement known as New Thought.

The non-believing world claims that there are spiritual ?laws? which people can learn to use on their behalf. These laws, which will work for anyone regardless of their religious beliefs (or even lack of) are referred to in different terms, but but both sides use exactly the same techniques. [See Comparing The Methodology/Technique]. Make absolutely NO mistake.. the secular world, by learning and applying certain principles, can and does match, or even exceed, the gain that "Christian" ministers promise. And we are to believe that this is from God?

However the Word Faith group, claiming to be Christian, have to somehow ?Christianize? the concepts and add God into the mixture. This in spite of the fact that a) there are no clear examples of Positive Confession in the Scriptures, b) The texts quoted over and over again by the Word of Faith teachers are usually taken way out of context and therefore do not prove their point, c) The Scriptures refute the general principles behind the beliefs and teachings of the Prosperity Doctrine camp and d) The teaching that believers are to confess rather than to pray for things which God has promised is contradicted by the Bible.

If you happen to be among those who think Christian leaders are entitled to obscene amounts of money, visit the GFA (Gospel For Asia) page, read the article then order their free book Revolution In World Missions (No ?love gift? asked for). Then, in view of millions who have never heard of Jesus, imagine how many souls an organization like GFA could save with money wasted on million dollar homes, antiques, jets, jewelry, fancy cars, wardrobes and watches. Finally decide whether you want to help Benny Hinn buy another Rolex, or help a missionary get a megaphone, some Bibles, a bicycle, a warm coat or even a pair of shoes, all of which are desperately needed.
Tele-Evangelist Lifestyles

INDEX

Paul and Jan Crouch's Earthly Empire... TBN
TBN's Annual Income, Salaries, The Crouch?s Homes, The TBN Building and Private Suites

Joel Osteen
Lakewood Church and Osteen?s 10.5 million Dollar Home

***********

THE INVESTIGATION

Kenneth Copeland
Salaries, 18,280 square foot Parsonage/Housing Allowances, Private Airport for nine aircraft, Travel and Shopping

Creflo Dollar
Rolls-Royces, private jets, million-dollar Atlanta home and $2.5 million Manhattan apartment

Paula (And Randy) White
If one can afford a $2.1 million home on Bayshore Boulevard and a $3.5 million Trump Tower condo in New York, giving away a Bentley as a birthday gift is no big deal.

Benny Hinn
10 million seaside mansion; a private jet, a Mercedes SUV and convertible, and ?layovers? between crusades at the cost of $900 - $3,000 per night at locations including Hawaii, Cancun, London, Milan etc.

Joyce Meyer
Ministry Headquarters, Sports Cars and Plane, Meyer's Irrevocable Trust, Family Compound (including aerial view) and Personal Spending

Eddie Long
favors Gucci sunglasses, gold necklaces, diamond bracelets, Rolex watches and Bentleys, and says he is "on a different scale than the little black preacher sitting over there" . I'll say!

*********

?Bishop? Elijah Bernard Jordan
This meglomaniac takes the proverbial cake, considering that the ceiling of one room in his multi million dollar mansion in an exclusive gated community, features a painting of Jordan on a throne ? as God ? with his three sons hovering around him as angels.

T.D. Jakes
$2.6 million luxurious pink brick, seven-bedroom home with swimming pool in the affluent White Rock Lake area of Dallas...next door to the former mansion of oil tycoon H.L. Hunt.

John Hagee
One of the best paid men on earth

Pat Robertson
has taken the word 'Christian' leader to new lows

Fred Price
commutes by private jet between his two churches

Juanita Bynum
A "more than a million dollar," black-tie wedding, Swarovski Crystal embellished gown, a 7.76-carat diamond ring and a $4.5 million estate.

The Crystal Cathedral
This "Hollywood" church, in the true sense of the word, spent spent between $13 million and $15 million on a lavish production called "Creation", then declared bankruptcy. No kidding!

Rodney Howard-Browne
the "bartender of holy laughter"

James MacDonald
A $1.9 million house puts him in some very interesting company

Mike Murdock
This "Wal-Mart guy" has a $25,000 Rolex adorning his wrist, and takes notes with a $4,500 fountain pen.

Rev. James Eugene Ewing
Oral Roberts
Jim and Tammy Bakker
Robert Tilton
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:10 PM  
mohel
 
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Jan Crouch and TBN' Earthly Empire

HTML Code:
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/tele-evangelist_lifestyles.html
Quote:
Founded in 1973, by Paul and Jan Crouch, TBN is headquartered in Costa Mesa, California, but also has studio facilities located in Irving, Texas; Hendersonville, Tennessee; Gadsden, Alabama; Decatur, Georgia; Miami, Florida; Tulsa, Oklahoma; Orlando, Florida; and New York City.

TBN is said to be the third largest over-the-air Station Group in the United States, with CBS, FOX, and NBC holding the 4th, 5th and 6th place, according to TV News Check's annual listing of the Top 30 Station Groups. network. They certainly are ...

"... the world's largest Christian television. Across America and around the world TBN is carried by TV stations and cable systems to millions of homes. As a matter of fact, TBN is featured on over 5,000 television stations, 33 satellites, the Internet and thousands of cable systems around the world. And the number continues to grow! [1]

And they aren't kidding.. TBN is currently carried on 33 international satellites. The following is a partial list of their satellite network...[All Emphasis Added]

Europe and the Middle East are being reached through Eutelsat Hotbird 6 and Intelsat 906; Eutelsat W4 covers Central Africa with direct-to-home service; the Express 6A satellite is providing Russian language programming to the Russian continent; Spain and Portugal are being reached by Hispasat; Intelsat 701broadcasts to Australia, New Zealand, the South Pacific islands and Southeast Asia; Intelsat 702 covers Taiwan; Palapa C-2 reaches India, Indonesia and Southeast Asia; TBN broadcasts Portuguese language programs to Brazil on Brazilsat B-2; and PanAmSat 9 blankets all of Latin America and Spain. [1]


TBN's Annual IncomeOn August 6th, 2008 the Orange County register reported that according to Trinity's actual tax returns published onguidestar.org, an organization that gathers and publicizes information about nonprofit organizations, [2], In 2006, the most recent year reported, TBN

"took in $200.7 million,

spent $141.1 million,

and socked away the extra $59.6 million".

Which pushed TBN's net assets close to the $1 billion mark, ($839 million in 2006, according to tax returns), including $327 million in mortgage-backed securities. [3] In other words, TBN has 327 million to buy speculative investments, yet daily goes on the air to beg for even more money.

And where does a large part of that income go?

Salaries
1998: In 1998, the Crouches showed a combined income of nearly $600,000... He was paid $159,500 a year as president, while she got $165,100 as vice president, IRS records show.

"Crouch's earnings went from $159,500 in 1997 to $262,915 the following year. Jan, the organization's vice president, also received a big raise. Her earnings more than doubled, going from $159,500 to $321,375 during the same time period". [4].

2008: But it gets worse.. According to Charity Navigator's latest CEO salary report which was released in the fall of 2008, and shows how much nonprofit leaders are making.

Paul F. Crouch Sr. as President and Director makes $419,500 a year.

Janice W. Crouch, as Vice President and Director makes $361,000 a year.

Paul F. Crouch Jr., as Vice President and Director makes $214,137 a year.

(Data from the 2010 study is based on the financial data provided on the FYE 2008 Forms 990 and includes salary, cash bonuses, and expense accounts) [5]

John Casoria, son of Dorothy Bethany Casoria, Trinity?s station manager and Jan Crouch's sister is spokesperson for TBN. His law office, at $164,200 a year, is one of TBN's highest-paid independent contractors. According to Casoria...

"TBN stands out and is different from other non profits in that we're a broadcasting entity,? .... ?Though we consider ourselves a church, we're a 501 c-3 and have been so for the last 35 years. Clearly we work in a different arena than most other charitable organizations.

"TBN is the 8th largest owner-operator of TV stations in the world,? he continued. "The salaries of these three individuals pales in comparison with people in the secular world doing similar work. This has not been not a job for them, but a life endeavor, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

"So when you compare us to other non profits out there feeding children and doing disaster relief, it's basically apples and oranges. It's still fruit, it's still a nonprofit, but it's a completely different charitable model.? [3]

Ummmm! Perhaps someone needs to tell Casoria that comparing Paul and Jan Crouch's salaries and other substantial perks to "people in the secular world doing similar work" is little but a red herring. A so called Christian organization has the obligation to conduct itself, not according to the business or secular world, or even other so called Christian organizations, but to Jesus and the apostles.
The Crouch?s Homes
Quote:
Televangelists Jan and Paul Crouch of the Costa Mesa-based Trinity Broadcasting Network have purchased a Newport Beach house, in a gated community overlooking the Pacific,for close to $5 million, Orange County Realtors say. The home was described as [Emphasis Added]

"a palatial estate with ocean and city views." The Crouches had been living in a smaller house in the same neighborhood. The house they bought has six bedrooms, nine bathrooms, a billiard room, a climate-controlled wine cellar, a sweeping staircase and a crystal chandelier. The three-story, nearly 9,500-square-foot house, which has an elevator, also has a six-car garage, a tennis court and a pool with a fountain. The house is on slightly more than an acre. Jan Crouch had been wanting a bigger yard for her dogs, sources said. [6].

This photograph was taken by Don Kelsen of the Latimes and is carried by The Trinity Foundation. (The network also owns one of the houses in the background). The mansion in the foreground was recently on the market for $8 million. "A real estate advertisement said it featured "11,000 square feet of opulent European luxury with regulation tennis courts and a rambling terraced hillside orchard with view of the blue Pacific." [7] Yet, the Times article goes on to say the Crouches present themselves as "thrifty and budget-conscious".

During one telethon, Paul said his personal $50,000 donation to TBN had wiped out the family checking account. He often says that he and his wife live in the same Newport Beach tract house they bought 33 years ago for $38,500. [7]

However

nowadays, neither of the Crouches uses that home much. Whether in Southern California or on the road, they live in a variety of other TBN-owned homes. In all, the network owns 30 residences in California, Texas, Tennessee and Ohio ? all paid for in cash, property records show. [7]

Apart from the two Newport Beach mansions, [All Emphasis Added]

In Costa Mesa, the ministry owns 11 homes in a gated development adjacent to Trinity Christian City International.

In Sky Forest, a resort community in the San Bernardino National Forest, the network owns a four-bedroom, five-bath home.

TBN officials say the real estate purchases were consistent with the network's charitable mission, because the homes serve as venues for broadcasts and provide lodging for the Crouches and fellow televangelists as they travel across the country. The properties have also been good investments, they said.

In Colleyville, Texas, near the network's International Production Center, TBN owns nine homes on 66 acres along a country road, a spread called Shiloh Ranch. Six horses graze in a pasture; TBN officials say they were gifts from admirers. [7]

According to the Orange County Register.

Trinity Christian Center of Santa Ana ? the nonprofit that runs Trinity Broadcasting Network ? owns about $54 million of property in Orange County ? and some $44 million of it is exempt from property taxes, according to public documents..

"The most expensive single-family home Trinity owns is on San Sebastian in Newport Beach - 10 rooms, 4.5 bathrooms, pool, 4,583 square feet, valued at $2.5 million on county property records. [8]
This way to the egress suckers
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:36 PM  
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Ha people are corrupt - even religious ones. Look at that, I made the same point as you without adding a bunch of copy-paste-posts and weird pictures.
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Old 06-10-2011, 07:44 PM  
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Yeah but they are so cool. I love it. Keep em coming Bluchmeister!
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Old 06-11-2011, 07:59 AM  
Moved NY => Abq 3/9/11
 
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I wonder how much the US economy would improve if the gov stopped the tax breaks for church property and made the churches pay income tax. The catholics alone could fund NASA.

Religion is the new tobacco.
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