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Old 06-12-2011, 07:56 PM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
I want to live in a world where people stop to help stranded motorists; I stop and help stranded motorists.
I do too, but first they they have to say three Hail Marys and make a good Act of Contrition.... and pay me $20, tax free .
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:18 PM  
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Originally Posted by JeeperDon View Post
I do too, but first they they have to say three Hail Marys and make a good Act of Contrition.... and pay me $20, tax free .
See, that's the difference. I'm not a fan of religion. Generally despise it, truth be told. But I'll stop for everyone, even those with Jesus Fish next to their license plates, and I don't make people "blaspheme against the Holy Ghost" before unspooling my winch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark 3:29
But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
(Although that $20 would come in handy... ... I say "no" - vehemently - to money at least 4 times, and then try to give back at least half of what is offered.)
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:36 PM  
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You have a winch <feeling giddy>

I knew you had good points. <s>

You make a good point. I don't want money but 4X tells me that person needs something too. I usually ask them to "pay it forward" but twice I took a couple bucks for their sake.

Oddly I've noticed doing good has a way of coming back to you in very strange ways. Coincidence perhaps but once a nun told me "coincidence is the unmistakable sigh of the hand of God".

Perhaps it is some of the time but usually it's just coincidence.
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:50 PM  
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Once Jesus was asked by the religious Pharisee's of his day--"What is the greatest commandment?" His answer was "To love God and then love others as you would love yourself."

I would say you have got down one half of that commandment! But then that's a good start.


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Old 06-12-2011, 09:56 PM  
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Originally Posted by Old-Goat View Post
Once Jesus was asked by the religious Pharisee's of his day--"What is the greatest commandment?" His answer was "To love God and then love others as you would love yourself."

I would say you have got down one half of that commandment! But then that's a good start.


"Old Goat" aka
"The Old Rugged Crosser in a Old rugged crossen CJ-5"
If god wants my love, he's gonna have to quit with the whole "non-existence" shtick. I've got plenty of fictional characters in my life who are far more meaningful than he. In part, and in no particular order: Bart Simpson, Phillip Fry, Stewie Griffin, Peter Venkman, John Yossarian, Bugs Bunny, Malcolm Reynolds, Angus MacGuyver, Pinocchio, Jiminy Crickett, Mary Poppins, Stan Smith, Spider Pig, Optimus Prime, Supreme Commander Thor, and the "Yo Quiero" chihuahua.
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Old 06-13-2011, 12:15 PM  
mohel
 
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Bart Simpson, Phillip Fry, Stewie Griffin, Peter Venkman, John Yossarian, Bugs Bunny, Malcolm Reynolds, Angus MacGuyver, Pinocchio, Jiminy Crickett, Mary Poppins, Stan Smith, Spider Pig, Optimus Prime, Supreme Commander Thor, and the "Yo Quiero" chihuahua.
Neocons actually invented Catch 22 at the demise of the dinosaurs. It's true, RLY
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Old 06-13-2011, 04:34 PM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
If god wants my love, he's gonna have to quit with the whole "non-existence" shtick. I've got plenty of fictional characters in my life who are far more meaningful than he. In part, and in no particular order: Bart Simpson, Phillip Fry, Stewie Griffin, Peter Venkman, John Yossarian, Bugs Bunny, Malcolm Reynolds, Angus MacGuyver, Pinocchio, Jiminy Crickett, Mary Poppins, Stan Smith, Spider Pig, Optimus Prime, Supreme Commander Thor, and the "Yo Quiero" chihuahua.
Ra: Your logic just broke down. You say that you can't love God because he portrays non-existence' yet you say that you have plenty of characters that are meaning-full to you and they are non-existent.

Face it, you are afraid to admit that there is a onipatant God. Because if He did in fact exist he would have demands on you-your life, that you are not willing to concede to Him. It is far more comfortable and easier to handle by denying His existence. Right?!


How do you account for the complexity of life? Evolution doesn't explain it as proven by what happens when you take a steak and leave it exposed in the sun. What happens to it? It degrades. Any thing left to it's self always decomposes not the other way around. A watch needs a watch maker.
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Old 06-13-2011, 05:14 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Goat View Post
............
How do you account for the complexity of life? Evolution doesn't explain it as proven by what happens when you take a steak and leave it exposed in the sun. What happens to it? It degrades. Any thing left to it's self always decomposes not the other way around. A watch needs a watch maker.
wow..... just wow, there are so many issues with that analogy.... I hope that was a parody of a creationists argument and I didn't get the joke...

first off just because science has yet to explain everything doesn't mean by default it must be magic, life seeks to survive, a steak is dead, it will decompose. dead things do that, living things reorganize what they consume to grow, this is basic biology (granted the real in depth details are quite complex, so yes it's easier to say "god did it" then to fully understand the functions that encourage life or "organization" as you want to classify it.
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Old 06-13-2011, 06:38 PM  
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Originally Posted by Old-Goat View Post
Ra: Your logic just broke down. You say that you can't love God because he portrays non-existence' yet you say that you have plenty of characters that are meaning-full to you and they are non-existent.
Alanis Morisette's portrayal of God in Dogma is more significant to me than the God described to me by Christianity.
Quote:

Face it, you are afraid to admit that there is a onipatant God. Because if He did in fact exist he would have demands on you-your life, that you are not willing to concede to Him. It is far more comfortable and easier to handle by denying His existence. Right?!
To quote another one of the fictional people who are important in my life:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayne Cobb
I smell a whole lotta "If" coming off this plan.
If you read the rest of my response, you should see how wrong you are in assuming I'm somehow afraid of god. I'm perfectly willing to entertain the idea of a deity. I can formulate rational thoughts based on theistic premises. I have found exactly NO reason to believe god exists. None. Not one.

Quote:
How do you account for the complexity of life? Evolution doesn't explain it as proven by what happens when you take a steak and leave it exposed in the sun. What happens to it? It degrades. Any thing left to it's self always decomposes not the other way around. A watch needs a watch maker.
I'll turn the question back to you, but I'll hold it for now.

I would remind you that you believe existence is the creation of God. I would remind you that science is the study of existence. The scientific process goes to great pains to ensure that individual bias does not color the results of study.

To a person who truly believes that God created all of existence, what better way is there to revere God than to dedicate one's life to understanding His creation?


How do you explain the complexity of life? That's the question, but I'm still not ready to turn it over to you. Instead, I'm going to ask:
Does God throw lightning bolts from the sky?

The answer depends on your perspective. There is no humanoid creature standing on top of the clouds, hammering lightning bolts in a giant forge, and heaving them to earth. If God is responsible, he's building these lightning bolts by moving tiny electrical charges on rain drops, building a massive static charge between parts of a cloud or between clouds and the earth. And that's the point - it makes no sense to speak of forges when discussing the realities of lightning.

If someone were to tell me that God was literally hammering lightning bolts in a forge and then heaving them to earth, I would know that he was incorrect. But before electricity was well understood, the "God's Will" theory of lightning was well accepted. The answer was beyond human knowledge at that time. All we knew was that lightning occasionally happened, and when it did, it could blow up trees and houses and kill people. Nobody could predict with any certainty what would get hit or why - it was entirely up to God what survived and what was destroyed. This idea lead directly to another: If it's God's Will, then there must have been a reason why those particular trees and houses and people were destroyed.

Enter the Lightning Rod. How blasphemous was this creation? How could man even begin to think of thwarting God's Will? And yet, the lightning rod operates on simple physical principals and it functions extremely predictably and reliably. It is the most likely point to get hit by lightning, and by channeling the energy to the earth, it demonstrably reduces damages. Churches now universally avail themselves of this "blasphemous" tool.


You asked me to explain the complexity of life. I *can* explain that. I could go into great detail about natural selection and heredity and mutation and adaptation. And then you'll ask me how life formed in the first place, and you'll get the answer you want: I don't know. And I don't. I may not ever know. I may never know if the initial cause of life on earth was some chemical process that started off around volcanic vents in the bottom of the ocean, tidal estuaries, meteor impacts, lightning strikes, God, or an ancient, alien mining ship dumping the contents of its sewage tanks before departing our planet. What I *do* know is that if divine creation is true, the first creatures created were microscopic, self-replicating molecules that eventually evolved into a mankind capable of asking that question. I know this, because this is how far back life has been traced on this planet, by people who have dedicated their lives to the study of existence.


You asked me "How do you explain the complexity of life?"

I'm ready to turn that question back to you. You tell me how life came to be complex.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:10 AM  
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Still there, Old-Goat?
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