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Old 06-24-2011, 01:55 PM  
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Originally Posted by Hillman View Post
Agnostic??, I say not so much.
I'll help you. If there is anything beyond this life every one of us will have an equal chance at it. Not just those who have been sold one of the three dozen savior/son of god stories which were first told in ancient Egypt 3000 years before the Jewish version.

The most arrogant, egotistical religious statement ever made was:

John 14:6

"Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:23 PM  
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Originally Posted by Dorph View Post
The most arrogant, egotistical religious statement ever made was:

John 14:6

"Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
This verse is regularly forwarded as one that offends those who reject.

My questions are these: What is the offense in this verse? Is it the fact that Jesus said it, or that Jesus was speaking for and as God, or that He, Jesus, is the only way to the Father?

Curious............and interested.
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Old 06-25-2011, 05:34 AM  
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Originally Posted by Hillman View Post
This verse is regularly forwarded as one that offends those who reject.

My questions are these: What is the offense in this verse? Is it the fact that Jesus said it, or that Jesus was speaking for and as God, or that He, Jesus, is the only way to the Father?

Curious............and interested.
I can't believe you're serious. What it says in summary is that anyone who has ever lived on this planet who does not believe a 2000 year old fairy tale which was written by the Jews who no longer believe it themselves...will burn in hell. There are 162 mentions of hell in the new testament, 70 of them by Jesus himself. More written about a burning hell than any other subject found there. Here are a few samples:

"And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame."
(Luke 16:23-24)

"The Son of Man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
(Mat 13:41-42)

"So it shall be at the end of the world. The angels shall come out and separate the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Mat 13:49-50

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Away from me, you that are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels!"
"These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life."
(Mat 25:41 & 46)

"And if your foot offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame than to have two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched where
their worm (conscience) dies not, and the fire is not quenched."
(Mark 9:45-46)


"He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil."
(John 3:18-19)

" - in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, ...."
(2Th 1:8-9)

"And a third angel followed them, saying with a great voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."
(Rev 14:9-11)

"And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire."
(Rev 20:15)

"But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
(Rev 21:8)
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Old 06-25-2011, 07:14 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorph View Post
I can't believe you're serious. What it says in summary is that anyone who has ever lived on this planet who does not believe a 2000 year old fairy tale which was written by the Jews who no longer believe it themselves...will burn in hell. There are 162 mentions of hell in the new testament, 70 of them by Jesus himself. More written about a burning hell than any other subject found there. Here are a few samples:

"And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame."
(Luke 16:23-24)

"The Son of Man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
(Mat 13:41-42)

"So it shall be at the end of the world. The angels shall come out and separate the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Mat 13:49-50

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Away from me, you that are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels!"
"These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life."
(Mat 25:41 & 46)

"And if your foot offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame than to have two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched where
their worm (conscience) dies not, and the fire is not quenched."
(Mark 9:45-46)


"He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil."
(John 3:18-19)

" - in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, ...."
(2Th 1:8-9)

"And a third angel followed them, saying with a great voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."
(Rev 14:9-11)

"And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire."
(Rev 20:15)

"But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
(Rev 21:8)
I couldn't be more serious! You're responding like (as my Grandma would say) a "bible thumper" would.....answering scripture with scripture.

My questions still stand....: What is the offense in this verse? Is it the fact that Jesus said it, or that Jesus was speaking for and as God, or that He, Jesus, is the only way to the Father?

Curious............and interested.


If you don't have an answer and you are just ranting that is fine, I understand. Many people, believers and non-believers, have issues/problems with parts of the bible for various reasons.....since you brought it up.....I'm interested in yours. Let's finish with your comments on salvation before we move to damnation. It'll be easier for me to follow and understand.

More curious..........and still interested.
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Old 06-25-2011, 12:29 PM  
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Originally Posted by Hillman View Post
I couldn't be more serious! You're responding like (as my Grandma would say) a "bible thumper" would.....answering scripture with scripture.

My questions still stand....: What is the offense in this verse? Is it the fact that Jesus said it, or that Jesus was speaking for and as God, or that He, Jesus, is the only way to the Father?

Curious............and interested.


If you don't have an answer and you are just ranting that is fine, I understand. Many people, believers and non-believers, have issues/problems with parts of the bible for various reasons.....since you brought it up.....I'm interested in yours. Let's finish with your comments on salvation before we move to damnation. It'll be easier for me to follow and understand.

More curious..........and still interested.
If you will look I prefaced that by saying it is the most arrogant, egotistical religious statement ever made. Jesus said it about himself. I stand by my remarks.

What it said in effect is either believe these Jewish tales about me, daddy and the holy ghost or burn in hell.

It's analagous to a high school football team being told by one of the players, "Either Elect Me Captain Or The Whole School Will Have a Losing Season In All Sports," and contains about the same amount of truth.
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Old 06-26-2011, 12:17 AM  
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Originally Posted by Dorph View Post
It's analagous to a high school football team being told by one of the players, "Either Elect Me Captain Or The Whole School Will Have a Losing Season In All Sports," and contains about the same amount of truth.
Quite a bit less truth, actually. At least the football player could theoretically affect the outcome of the game. It's more like the president of the Chess Club telling the the football team to elect him class president and buy him a Camaro, or a year after they graduate, the school will have a losing season.

By the time the football team figures out it was a con, they won't care anymore.
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Old 06-26-2011, 05:02 AM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
Quite a bit less truth, actually. At least the football player could theoretically affect the outcome of the game. It's more like the president of the Chess Club telling the the football team to elect him class president and buy him a Camaro, or a year after they graduate, the school will have a losing season.

By the time the football team figures out it was a con, they won't care anymore.
Yes...I like yours better than my own. When an individual patterns their life and digs deep into their pockets for a promise made during primitive times of something which is supposed to happen to them after they're dead, that's over the top.
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Old 07-03-2011, 05:04 PM  
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Originally Posted by Hillman View Post
I couldn't be more serious!

My questions still stand....: What is the offense in this verse? Is it the fact that Jesus said it, or that Jesus was speaking for and as God, or that He, Jesus, is the only way to the Father?

Curious............and interested.


More curious..........and still interested.
You guys have spent more time congratulating yourselves on your "wise" reply's, however, the question still stands unanswered as usual.
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Old 07-03-2011, 05:40 PM  
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Originally Posted by oldruggedcrosser View Post
You guys have spent more time congratulating yourselves on your "wise" reply's, however, the question still stands unanswered as usual.
That question has been addressed ad nauseum. The statement attributed to Jesus makes the same presumption that mankind is evil. That's what I take offense to. The rest is simple arrogance, which only offends me in that it has fooled so many people.
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:27 PM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
That question has been addressed ad nauseum. The statement attributed to Jesus makes the same presumption that mankind is evil. That's what I take offense to. The rest is simple arrogance, which only offends me in that it has fooled so many people.
Why suddenly have you objected to answering ad nauseum which you haven't concerning these two specific questions when you have regurgitated your junk theories ad nauseum? Seems you demand everything to go your way or it isn't fair play.

And by the way who elected you to be offended for "so many other people?"
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