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Old 05-31-2011, 06:48 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
I'm not going to have a "who's life is harder" pissing contest here.

Saying you're a Christian is easy. Actually being a Christian is much harder. And that argument goes much deeper, of course.
Yeah...one has to:

Turn the other cheek
Walk the extra mile
Do unto others as they would do unto themselves
Love their neighbors
Love their enemies
Pray for those who curse and despise them
Sell what they have and give it to the poor
Take no thought for tomorrow
If sued in court for coat, voluntarily give cloak also
Be perfect...at least that's what it says in Matthew

As if that wasn't enough they should be giving a tenth of everything they can get their hands on plus extra gifts to the church

Using those guidelines I've never met a Christian...'course I'm just 77 years old
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:02 PM  
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You misunderstand. Those things are what Christians strive for, not pre-requisites. A lot of critics do use that argument though.
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:30 PM  
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Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
You misunderstand. Those things are what Christians strive for, not pre-requisites. A lot of critics do use that argument though.
I read your book...a dozen times. There's not a place in there where it says to strive. What it does say is:

"But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it"

and:

"Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

"Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"

"Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers."

This modern attempt by the church to mellow up the message will work for those who will believe anything. Keep in mind...there are 162 references to a burning hell in the new testament, 70 by Jesus himself. The church and it's spokesmen have preached billions of hell fire and damnation sermons and now that the public has developed an opinion that eternal punishment for one's mistakes is illogical the church is conveniently taking a stand that it's all been errors in translation.

Guess what?? At first the church required infant baptism. When folks began to doubt that an infant could go to hell the church dropped the requirement. The scripture that supported it is still there.

They hunted witches and burned hundreds of thousands at the stake, innocent young women who had done no wrong. The scripture is still there.

They tolerated slavery sometimes accommodating it for thousands of years but now that it's not in vogue it's never mentioned. The scripture is still there.

Women were put in submissive roles from birth...now some are ministers and many do the churches work. The scripture is still there.

When are people going to catch on?? It's run for Sunday morning collections and when anything interferes with that goal it's corrected.

P. T. Barnum said, "There's A Sucker Born Every Minute" Religion proves he was right. Anytime somebody digs deep and gives away their money for a promise of something which is supposed to happen after they die...all I can do is feel sorry for them.

I'm agnostic. I don't know what the future holds but one thing about which I'm certain. Whatever it is we'll all get an equal shot at it. Not according to some ancient load of crap imagined by a bunch of goat herders.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:05 PM  
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P. T. Barnum said, "There's A Sucker Born Every Minute." Religion...any religion proves he was exactly right.
If P.T. Barnum ever met L. Ron Hubbard he would grasp Scientology instantly.
Half of New Testament forged, Bible scholar says-scientologykills.jpg 

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Old 06-01-2011, 07:36 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorph

I read your book...a dozen times. There's not a place in there where it says to strive. What it does say is:

"But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it"

and:

"Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

"Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"

"Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers."

This modern attempt by the church to mellow up the message will work for those who will believe anything. Keep in mind...there are 162 references to a burning hell in the new testament, 70 by Jesus himself. The church and it's spokesmen have preached billions of hell fire and damnation sermons and now that the public has developed an opinion that eternal punishment for one's mistakes is illogical the church is conveniently taking a stand that it's all been errors in translation.

Guess what?? At first the church required infant baptism. When folks began to doubt that an infant could go to hell the church dropped the requirement. The scripture that supported it is still there.

They hunted witches and burned hundreds of thousands at the stake, innocent young women who had done no wrong. The scripture is still there.

They tolerated slavery sometimes accommodating it for thousands of years but now that it's not in vogue it's never mentioned. The scripture is still there.

Women were put in submissive roles from birth...now some are ministers and many do the churches work. The scripture is still there.

When are people going to catch on?? It's run for Sunday morning collections and when anything interferes with that goal it's corrected.

P. T. Barnum said, "There's A Sucker Born Every Minute" Religion proves he was right. Anytime somebody digs deep and gives away their money for a promise of something which is supposed to happen after they die...all I can do is feel sorry for them.

I'm agnostic. I don't know what the future holds but one thing about which I'm certain. Whatever it is we'll all get an equal shot at it. Not according to some ancient load of crap imagined by a bunch of goat herders.
I can tell you're very bitter about this, and I'm not really here to try to persuade anyone. I'm perfectly happy and content with my 'load of crap'! :-)
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Old 06-01-2011, 08:47 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorph View Post
Yeah...one has to:

Turn the other cheek
Walk the extra mile
Do unto others as they would do unto themselves
Love their neighbors
Love their enemies
Pray for those who curse and despise them
Sell what they have and give it to the poor
Take no thought for tomorrow
If sued in court for coat, voluntarily give cloak also
Be perfect...at least that's what it says in Matthew

As if that wasn't enough they should be giving a tenth of everything they can get their hands on plus extra gifts to the church

Using those guidelines I've never met a Christian...'course I'm just 77 years old
and you never will either. Only one has ever fullfilled the commandments. Christians are unable to keep these. The true bible, the word of GOD, is very clear on this issue. The narrow gates refers to those of pure heart, in other words, give an honest try. It never says they have to achieve the tasks but give a pure heartfull try. Even then most will fail.
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Old 06-01-2011, 10:25 PM  
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Better said than I.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:35 AM  
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Originally Posted by HiHood View Post
and you never will either. Only one has ever fullfilled the commandments. Christians are unable to keep these. The true bible, the word of GOD, is very clear on this issue. The narrow gates refers to those of pure heart, in other words, give an honest try. It never says they have to achieve the tasks but give a pure heartfull try. Even then most will fail.
So the hell fire preaching, the 162 mentions of the eternal suffering, 70 by Jesus himself doesn't apply to those who try? That's definitely not what I gleaned from it. Here's a little sample of the references. I can provide a lot more if you would like to read them:

"But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters,and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
(Rev 21:8)

"And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame."
(Luke 16:23-24)

"The Son of Man shall send out His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who do iniquity, and shall cast them into a furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
(Mat 13:41-42)

"So it shall be at the end of the world. The angels shall come out and separate the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire. There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
Mat 13:49-50

"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Away from me, you that are under God's curse! Away to the eternal fire which has been prepared for the Devil and his angels!"
"These, then, will be sent off to eternal punishment, but the righteous will go to eternal life."
(Mat 25:41 & 46)

"And if your foot offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame than to have two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched where
their worm (conscience) dies not, and the fire is not quenched."
(Mark 9:45-46)


"He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil."
(John 3:18-19)

" - in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, ...."
(2Th 1:8-9)

"And a third angel followed them, saying with a great voice, If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives a mark in his forehead or in his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the anger of God, having been mixed undiluted in the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented by fire and brimstone before the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever. And they have no rest day or night, those who worship the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."
(Rev 14:9-11)

"And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire."
(Rev 20:15)


When are people going to realize that all this unadulterated BS was written by a bunch of ignorant primitives who understood nothing and were setting up a system by which people would be scared to death not to play their game, their way. One thing has kept it in place...the brainwashing of innocent, gullible infants and small children from each new generation.
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Old 06-02-2011, 09:06 AM  
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there's two important points I want to make here. One is that it talks of obediance and the scrpture you yourself quoted pretty much sums it up john 3:18-19. Thats one, when one believes, and there is no pretending to have believe, one will automatically attempt to follow the commandments.

hell & brimstone.. these scriptures are speaking of the way ancients disposed of garbage. There was pit, hades, outside each city, where people brought their trash, just like we today use land fills, and would burn the trash & garbage with accellerents. THIS is what they refer to as they speak of the damned, to be tossed forever into the fire and forgotten.

Satan is a smart being and decieves many, some by confusing them to atheism, others to false teachers pretending to be announcing the word of the living GOD, (using GOD's name in vain), and still others by testing their faith in the powers of our creator.

the basic truths that one should bring from the bible are that the living GOD makes no mistakes and is all knowing. One screw ball, (Satan) does not come along to destroy his plan but instead is PART of the plan. Without KNOWLEDGE you have no choice, not knowing anything but good, how would you be able to choose between good and evil?
And that we cannot fullfill the commandments but can certainly TRY with our full hearts, and most importantly, Jesus Christ DID fullfill the commandments but experianced death anyways as a sacrafice that we can live even though we are unable to achieve what he did while on earth.
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:16 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHood View Post
there's two important points I want to make here. One is that it talks of obediance and the scrpture you yourself quoted pretty much sums it up john 3:18-19. Thats one, when one believes, and there is no pretending to have believe, one will automatically attempt to follow the commandments.

hell & brimstone.. these scriptures are speaking of the way ancients disposed of garbage. There was pit, hades, outside each city, where people brought their trash, just like we today use land fills, and would burn the trash & garbage with accellerents. THIS is what they refer to as they speak of the damned, to be tossed forever into the fire and forgotten.

Satan is a smart being and decieves many, some by confusing them to atheism, others to false teachers pretending to be announcing the word of the living GOD, (using GOD's name in vain), and still others by testing their faith in the powers of our creator.

the basic truths that one should bring from the bible are that the living GOD makes no mistakes and is all knowing. One screw ball, (Satan) does not come along to destroy his plan but instead is PART of the plan. Without KNOWLEDGE you have no choice, not knowing anything but good, how would you be able to choose between good and evil?
And that we cannot fullfill the commandments but can certainly TRY with our full hearts, and most importantly, Jesus Christ DID fullfill the commandments but experianced death anyways as a sacrafice that we can live even though we are unable to achieve what he did while on earth.
Shucks...you must have missed some of them.


"And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am tormented in this flame."
(Luke 16:23-24)

Look...the church has killed millions, tortured hundreds of thousands, crucified, tolerated, accomodated, changed scripture and everything a mortal can imagine to keep the money coming in. Folks who were taught this BS as a child cannot nor will the ever see what a load it is. Their minds are blocked to the truth. Oh...on that salvation thing:

Luke 8:4-15 When a great multitude came together, and people from every city were coming to him, he spoke by a parable. "The farmer went out to sow his seed. As he sowed,

some fell along the road, and it was trampled under foot, and the birds of the sky devoured it. other seed fell on the rock, and as soon as it grew, it withered away, because it had no moisture. Other fell amid the thorns, and the thorns grew with it, and choked it.
Other fell into the good ground, and grew, and brought forth fruit one hundred times."


As he said these things, he called out, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!"
Then his disciples asked him, "What does this parable mean?"
He said, "To you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, but to the rest in parables; that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.


# Those along the road are those who hear, then the devil comes,

# and takes away the word from their heart, that they may not believe and be saved. Those on the rock are they who, when they hear, receive the word with joy

# but these have no root, who believe for a while, then fall away in time of temptation. That which fell among the thorns, these are those who have heard,

and as they go on their way they are choked with cares, riches,
and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity
.

About six months ago I was in a neighboring town. A new Cadillac Escalade merged in from my right and the first thing I noticed was a Christian fish above the bumper on the right rear. As the vehicle completed it's merge I noticed a big white and gold sign on the left which boldly stated, "This Family Is Blessed." I literally laughed out loud. A billion people in this world, mostly children, are starving and dying from malnutrition. The individual who put that sign on the Escalade is living in a dream world. Blessed Indeed.
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