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Old 04-28-2011, 03:52 PM  
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Originally Posted by Hillman View Post
Soooo,.......making pro-Christian comments and going into a particular building makes one a Christian?

Hmmmm,...then, if I go into a gay bar and say there is no God, then I'll be a gay atheist?

Interesting
According to many christians, yes

If christians had to actually follow christian teachings.... there would be a lot less christians.
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Old 04-29-2011, 12:22 PM  
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"Christians" do follow Christian teachings, or by definition, they are not Christians. Where the theologically illiterate go astray is by self defining those "teachings" in such a broad sense as to make them void of any semblance of truth and then expecting perfection by its adherents.

Thank God there was only one perfect man and He doesn't expect perfection from either of us......in it's simplest form, acknowledgement is enough.
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Old 04-29-2011, 12:50 PM  
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Originally Posted by Hillman View Post
"Christians" do follow Christian teachings......in it's simplest form, acknowledgement is enough.
what.....?

so all god cares about is acknowledging him, nothing that was attributed to him or jesus's teaching matter, just acknowledging he is god? really?

If that's the case then god sounds like quite a jerk:

You are an atheist and volunteered, gave to the poor and were nice and respectful to everyone, but you go to hell, but Tom over here, sure he molested some kids, didn't give a dime to charity but he believed in me so he gets in.....

That is the god you believe in?
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Old 04-29-2011, 04:06 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
what.....?

so all god cares about is acknowledging him, nothing that was attributed to him or jesus's teaching matter, just acknowledging he is god? really?

If that's the case then god sounds like quite a jerk:

You are an atheist and volunteered, gave to the poor and were nice and respectful to everyone, but you go to hell, but Tom over here, sure he molested some kids, didn't give a dime to charity but he believed in me so he gets in.....

That is the god you believe in?
I sense depth but see only shallow attempts to prove what you don't know. With rejected sympathy I will attempt to explain my response.

* so all god cares about is acknowledging him = No...and I'm sure even you know that. You repeatedly use words and phrases to prove your point of non-belief. Surely you realize everyone who reads your responses acknowledge your position making your slight of word/phrase unnecessary if not infantile. Additionally, I'm sure I do not need to explain the meaning of "in it's simplest form". How, by any absurd ill informed definition, could "in it's simplest form" be construed to mean all forms available except by one who is challenged in the truth of facts and reason? It is obvious you do not know the One True God....I' hoping you can't be blamed for that.

* You are an atheist and volunteered, gave to the poor and were nice and respectful to everyone, but you go to hell, but Tom over here, sure he molested some kids, didn't give a dime to charity but he believed in me so he gets in..... = This is one of the sad disconnects between believers and nonbelievers; it is one that troubles me greatly. Your response, while intellectually bankrupt, is also grounded in theological illiteracy. Simple reasoning would disqualify an atheist reaching salvation whether they volunteered, gave to the poor, or were nice and respectful. Surely you know that, but your intellectual dishonesty to yourself and other atheist apparently requires these shallow statements. That in and of itself does not surprise me. I'm use to such responses from like thinkers. What reveals your "person", and I'll allow this forum that conclusion, is your manifest WWW exposed ignorance of something you claim to hate so much and that is the Who, what, and how of ones salvation. If you don't want to know and want to continue to embarrass yourself and other atheist look away now because I am going to share with you the "simple" truth. Still reading?...here goes...I'll list them.

1. Believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
2.......................that is it, it's simplest form!

It's not about being nice, giving to the poor, being respectful,...it's not about "being" anything. It's about believing in Christ Jesus. As for the rapist, murderers, thieves, liars, there will be/are some of those in Heaven as well. Not because of what they did or did not do, again, it's not about "doing", it's about believing. I can imagine your retort to this but I'll explain that as well. The "being and doing" that nonbelievers (and some believers as well) get caught up in is best viewed/understood sequentially in occurrence. In sequence we are into the "doing and being" inside (enjoying it, no remorse) our sin, without Christ as our guide. Once we are blessed with believing, Christ is our guide, and we attempt to "do and be" like Christ while attempting to live outside our sins. Believers and nonbelievers will always be tempted and we will sin. The difference is believers acknowledge their sins as such and look to Christ for forgiveness when they fall short.

It's really that simple...or what I call simply complex. It starts with the gift of belief. That is the work of the Holy Spirit. Then we respond according to our heart with the "being and doing". We reject or we follow...with all of the twists and turns of religiosity.

It is clear that you exist in the reject phase of "the" sequence. The question is are you rejecting God's call or are you rejecting because the lack of? Either way it is my sincere hope you accept when and if you are called.
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Old 04-29-2011, 04:30 PM  
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^^^ so in essence god is a jerk that only cares about his popularity, you will claim I am being harsh, but that really is what you are saying.

That's not a god I could ever believe in, I would rather have a god that cared about people and society rather then demanding he win a popularity contest of worshippers.... If a celebrity demanded that we would see it as sad and shallow, If people claim god wants it some people will just bow to it....

your idea of god scares me, sounds more like the devil to me.

did you eve read the bible, what about the forgiveness that he was so big about, you really think he couldn't forgive someone for being born in a position where christianity wasn't forced upon them even if they did great humanitarian things?
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Old 04-29-2011, 05:34 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
^^^ so in essence god is a jerk that only cares about his popularity, you will claim I claim nothing. I just procalim what I have come to know...much like yourself.) I am being harsh, but that really is what you are saying. (Maybe not "harsh"...just mistaken. What I said was clear to those who desire to hear.)

That's not a god I could ever believe in, I would rather have a god that cared about people and society rather then demanding he win a popularity contest of worshippers (Perspective is everything. Desirous is not demanding and popularity is not necessarily loving.).... If a celebrity demanded that we would see it as sad and shallow, If people claim god wants it some people will just bow to it We agree in context on this statement.)....

your idea of god scares me, sounds more like the devil to me. (Perception being what it is I'd be scared If I was you as well.)

did you eve read the bible (Yep!), what about the forgiveness that he was so big about, you really think he couldn't forgive someone for being born in a position where christianity wasn't forced upon them even if they did great humanitarian things?I could quote scripture that would debunk your slanderous statements but that be as useful as...well, you get my point. If you can't believe in God, you can't believe in His Holy Word. For you to attempt to rationalize "forgiveness" is tantamount to me denying God! Just ain't going to happen...at least not today.
I'm still hoping for you!
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Old 04-29-2011, 08:16 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
....you really think he couldn't forgive someone for being born in a position where christianity wasn't forced upon them even if they did great humanitarian things?
I was thinking about my previous response to the your statement above. I considered editing my previous remarks but that might be construed that I was wrong or mistaken. I firmly believe what I clearly stated in reference to your comments. I was only responding to you, RedJeep, and unfortunately ignoring the broader possible audience. In clarification there are 2 major positions in reference to God's grace; (1. A liberal view point or Armenianism, which gives responsibility for one's salvation to the person not God. It is by their free will that they accept grace or refuse it. Salvation is offered to all but can be rejected. These are very elementary definitions but they will suffice for this entry. Then there is (2. a conservative view or Calvinism. This view puts the (salvific) decision in the hands of God, respecting His sovereignty over that of man, and also respects man's free will.

Scripture is clear, God is sovereign, faith is a gift, and election is a reality. Calvinist hold that scripture is on their side while Armenians hold that scripture is on their side. I previously revealed my conservative beliefs. With all that can be debated the Calvinist view that God is sovereign over salvation trumps the Armenian view that man decides his will to accept or not accept grace. With that being said, both positions assume the acceptance of Christ as Lord over their lives. That is the "simple" theological constant.

Soooo, your statement, "...you really think he couldn't forgive someone for being born in a position where christianity wasn't forced upon them even if they did great humanitarian things?", has the meat of perceived validity but it still fails the theological reasonablity test. Salvation is not geographically based (as in being born somewhere). God is revealed in everyone's heart; believers and rejectors alike. That revelation manifest itself in acceptance or rejection. With out that revelation, this debate would not be taking place. You cannot reject something you do not know, philosophically or otherwise. Again you attempt to debate a subject you not only are challenged by and over, but your insistence on the "doing (humanitarian) things" as an argument is........

I would be honored to help you better understand what you think you reject. Just let me know.

I remain in my hope for you!
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Old 04-30-2011, 12:47 AM  
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Originally Posted by Hillman View Post
...........
Soooo, your statement, "...you really think he couldn't forgive someone for being born in a position where christianity wasn't forced upon them even if they did great humanitarian things?", has the meat of perceived validity but it still fails the theological reasonablity test. Salvation is not geographically based (as in being born somewhere). God is revealed in everyone's heart; believers and rejectors alike. That revelation manifest itself in acceptance or rejection. With out that revelation, this debate would not be taking place. You cannot reject something you do not know, philosophically or otherwise. Again you attempt to debate a subject you not only are challenged by and over, but your insistence on the "doing (humanitarian) things" as an argument is........!
1.) god is revealed in everyone's heart? what are you smoking how is the christian god revealed to everyone, especially those in cultures with no knowledge of christian ideology?

2.) so If I reject christianity you think it's because I don't understand it, how illogical. I don't believe in it because I understand what it is from the macro perspective, yes you can argue fine ideas or beliefs but at the end of the day it's no different then any other religion or cult, it's just more popular in the west.....

I'll think for myself, instead of following a man pretending to speak for a god he's never met.....and doesn't even exist.
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Old 04-30-2011, 07:36 AM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
.....I'll think for myself, instead of following a man pretending to speak for a god he's never met.....and doesn't even exist.
There you go again....you can't "meet" someone who doesn't exist!


Details, details, details!

My offer still stands.....and hope remains.
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:06 PM  
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Has anyone seen this show about the building of Mosques in our country? I am stunned at how folks would allow an evangelical church like those of the Westboro variety to be built without issues, but deny the Muslim population, which are far more pius than we are, the right to build their places of worship. How rude are we? If the Muslim community were to build a Mosque in our back yard, I'd be the first to welcome them with open arms. I was just curious if we had any Muslim members in our midst?
I spent some time in Boston out in the burbs. There I was treated to the electronic amplified call to prayer 5 times a day, whether I wanted to hear it or not.

That is what it is like to have the "Muslims next door."
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