Polygamist leader, in court outburst

[rivalarrival]

You're claiming both fallibility and infallibility where it suits your purposes. You say that man is fallible, but then you suggest an understanding of infallible "truth". You suggest that you may be wrong on anything, but you can't be wrong about "the truth that is revealed in Christ".

Is that an accurate statement?

[Hillman]

Originally Posted by rivalarrival

You're claiming both fallibility and infallibility where it suits your purposes. Yes! My purpose is to defend the infallibility of Christ in His Person and as the foundation of the Church. And yes, I am saying that every man (person) which make up the church is fallible.You say that man is fallible, but then you suggest (Not suggest but profess.)an understanding and acceptance of infallible "truth". You suggest that you may be wrong on anything, but you can't be wrong about "the truth that is revealed in Christ". Yes, but I do not merely "suggest". The mysteries of faith and spiritual understandings cannot be explain with worldly logic. In fact, the world and it's trappings are a barrier to the truth I speak of. A believers is to live "in" the world but not be a part of it. "World" in this sense refers to a sinful, non repentive life.

Is that an accurate statement?

Yes, that is as accurate as you'll be able to state it. Without faith in God, through Christ it is impossible for you to understand or even grasp the concept. At great risk I share this bit of scripture. If the following passage is not understood and accepted this exchange is moot.

Hebrews 11
By Faith We Understand
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Again, my goal is not to convince but to clearly explain what I know.

[blucher]

[QUOTE][You blaming the Church and or the Boy Scouts for the perversions of man is tantamount to me blaming your keyboard for typing ludicrous statements./QUOTE]

I didn't blame either organization for the behavior of some members, I merely pointed out that as times changed the problem appeared to switch sources. I agree the Church was well on it's way to perdition before the scouts offered competition. Perhaps the DAR is next?

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." : Samuel Johnson

[rivalarrival]

Originally Posted by Hillman

Yes, that is as accurate as you'll be able to state it. Without faith in God, through Christ it is impossible for you to understand or even grasp the concept. At great risk I share this bit of scripture. If the following passage is not understood and accepted this exchange is moot.

Hebrews 11
By Faith We Understand
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Again, my goal is not to convince but to clearly explain what I know.

You honestly don't recognize the contradiction? You're saying that you, a man, an admittedly fallible entity, believe that you can not only recognize infallible truth, but that you have discovered it. You essentially claim that you cannot possibly be wrong about this, that the faith of a fallible man is somehow infallible.

I don't see how a fallible entity can validly claim the knowledge you claim. Before we discuss the knowledge itself, can you demonstrate this?



I agree fully, faith is the substance of things hoped for, and evidence of things not known. This matches up perfectly with "assumption" as used in logic.

Logic uses assumption as a tool. "Assume the contrary" are the first three words of a large number of mathematical proofs. "Assume that the set of all prime numbers is finite". We don't yet know whether this set is finite or infinite, but if we make the assumption that it is finite and that assumption leads us to contradiction, we know that assumption is false. Assumption isn't the basis of knowledge, but a tool to help us acquire it.

Religion, especially Christianity, uses assumption differently. "Have faith that it is true and it is true." Assumption isn't used as a tool, but as the foundation.

[blucher]

Polygamist leader, in court outburst

Polygamist leader found guilty in child-rape case

Polygamist leader guilty in child-rape case - US news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com

Warren Jeffs was accused of sexually assaulting 12- and 15-year-old girls he took as brides

SAN ANGELO, Texas — A jury on Thursday convicted polygamist church leader Warren Jeffs of sexually assaulting two girls he had taken as "spiritual wives."
The jury returned its verdict after about 3 1/2 hours of deliberations.
Jeffs stood stone-faced as the decision was read.
The penalty phase of the trial was to immediately follow. Jeff faces a sentence of up to life in prison.
During the trial, prosecutors used DNA evidence to show Jeffs fathered a child with a 15-year-old girl and played an audio recording of what they said was him sexually assaulting a 12-year-old girl. They also played audio recordings in which Jeffs was heard instructing young women on how to please him sexually.
In closing arguments Thursday morning, Jeffs, who acted as his own attorney, stood mute during nearly all 30 minutes of his allotted time. He then mumbled a few words that sounded like "I am at peace" before sitting down.
Lead prosecutor Eric Nichols told jurors that the so-called religious persecution and freedom issues Jeffs raised are not a legitimate defense for the alleged crimes.

"This case is not about any people, not about any religion. This case is about Warren Steed Jeffs and what he has done," Nichols said, according to The Salt Lake Tribune.

Jeffs tried three times unsuccessfully to have State District Judge Barbara Walther removed and filed a brief based on what he said was a revelation from the Lord saying she will suffer a crippling sickness that will soon take her life.

Eleven other FLDS men were charged with crimes including sexual assault and bigamy. All seven of those who have been prosecuted were convicted, receiving prison sentences of between six and 75 years.

booga booga

[havasu]

I hope he rots in hell!








(I know, I should be more sensitive, but I'm not!)