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Old 07-08-2011, 11:51 PM  
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The reprobate mind

UNDERSTANDING THE SCRIPTURES ?UNDERSTANDING YOURSELF


The philosophy of substituting God's Word with one's own reasoning commenced with Satan. He introduced it at the outset of the human race by suggesting to Eve that she ignore God's orders, assuring her that in so doing she would become like God with the power to discern good and evil (Genesis 3:1-5). That was Satan's big lie. Paul said that when any person rejects God's truth, his mind becomes "reprobate," meaning perverted, void of sound judgment. The perverted mind, having rejected God's truth, is not capable of discerning good and evil.

Spiritual death brings an insensitivity to the things of God. It is a spiritual slavery, the prisoners of which are helplessly, hopelessly dead. This is what Total Depravity is. It does not mean, as many have misunderstood, that the unregenerate man is as bad as he can possibly be. It means that the man is as bad off as he can possibly be. This means then that man must depend upon the light of God's word to shine upon his darkened heart.

What do the Scriptures say about God?s word? Why Can we believe the Scriptures? We can put our confidence in His Word because:

"Every scripture is inspired by God and useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness.

Above all, you do well if you recognize this: No prophecy of scripture ever comes about by the prophet?s own imagination, for no prophecy was ever borne of human impulse; rather, men carried along by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

The mark of the purity of the Apostle Paul?s ministry.

II Cor. 4:1 Therefore, since we have this ministry, just as God has shown us mercy, we do not become discouraged. But we have rejected shameful hidden deeds, not behaving with deceptiveness or distorting the word of God, but by open proclamation of the truth we commend ourselves to everyone?s conscience before God.

The Scriptures give 2 reasons for unbelief.

The apostle Paul gave one of those reasons why those who read God?s word do not understand it:

"But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing, among whom the god of this age has blinded the minds of those who do not believe so they would not see the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God."

What did Jesus say was the reason that many did not believe?

(Jesus said For this reason they could not believe, as
Isaiah said,
?He has blinded their eyes
and hardened their heart,
so that they would not see with their eyes
and understand with their heart."

The second reason has to due with pride.
"Nevertheless, even among the rulers many believed in him, but because of the Pharisees they would not confess Jesus to be the Christ, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue. For they loved praise from men more than praise from God."

"But Jesus shouted out, ?The one who believes in me does not believe in me, but in the one who sent me."

You may say you know God and believe in Him. But unless you truly believe in Jesus as Lord you show that you do not know Him on His terms.
Again, Jesus said, "and the one who sees me sees the one who sent me. I have come as a light into the world, so that everyone who believes in me should not remain in darkness."

Our spiritual eyes need to be opened, this is why we must be born again:

I COR. 2: 10,13,14 God has revealed these (Scriptures) to us by the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. And we speak about these things, not with words taught us by human wisdom, but with those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.The unbeliever does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned."

"Jesus replied, ?I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus answered, ?I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit."

John 3:16 "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God."

One must have a regenerate mind to understand the truths of God's Word.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:42 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldruggedcrosser View Post
Paul said that when any person rejects God's truth, his mind becomes "reprobate," meaning perverted, void of sound judgment. The perverted mind, having rejected God's truth, is not capable of discerning good and evil.
Despite all evidence to the contrary. Every culture in the world has the same basic code of ethics - don't steal, don't lie, don't murder. Many animals, and even some insects demonstrate similar ethical codes. One need not accept the bible to understand and distinguish between "good" and "evil". One needs only a mind capable of rational thought, and then only to understand the question.


The rest of the original post is a tall tower built not on bedrock, but on sand. The entire construct comes tumbling down when one starts looking at the fallacies upon which it is built.
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Old 07-09-2011, 07:01 AM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
Despite all evidence to the contrary. Every culture in the world has the same basic code of ethics - don't steal, don't lie, don't murder. Many animals, and even some insects demonstrate similar ethical codes. One need not accept the bible to understand and distinguish between "good" and "evil". One needs only a mind capable of rational thought, and then only to understand the question.


The rest of the original post is a tall tower built not on bedrock, but on sand. The entire construct comes tumbling down when one starts looking at the fallacies upon which it is built.
Yeah and the ten commandments are vast overkill. Should someone honor their father and mother if one is a murderer and the other is a meth addict?

One statement from the new testament should suffice as moral instruction for the entire world. "Do Unto Others What You Would Have Them Do Unto You."

That pretty much describes the efforts of primitive mankind, repetition and overkill.
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Old 07-09-2011, 07:45 AM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
Despite all evidence to the contrary. Every culture in the world has the same basic code of ethics - don't steal, don't lie, don't murder. Many animals, and even some insects demonstrate similar ethical codes. One need not accept the bible to understand and distinguish between "good" and "evil". One needs only a mind capable of rational thought, and then only to understand the question.


The rest of the original post is a tall tower built not on bedrock, but on sand. The entire construct comes tumbling down when one starts looking at the fallacies upon which it is built.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorph View Post
Yeah and the ten commandments are vast overkill. Should someone honor their father and mother if one is a murderer and the other is a meth addict?

One statement from the new testament should suffice as moral instruction for the entire world. "Do Unto Others What You Would Have Them Do Unto You."

That pretty much describes the efforts of primitive mankind, repetition and overkill.
ORC....I was wrong. They do read it!

Maran atha!
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:42 AM  
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Quote:
ORC....I was wrong. They do read it!
tl,dnr
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:48 AM  
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Yeah, maybe they DID read it when the schools and churches , parents , were brain washing them!
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:00 PM  
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Mill Creek, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
Despite all evidence to the contrary. Every culture in the world has the same basic code of ethics - don't steal, don't lie, don't murder. Many animals, and even some insects demonstrate similar ethical codes. One need not accept the bible to understand and distinguish between "good" and "evil". One needs only a mind capable of rational thought, and then only to understand the question.


The rest of the original post is a tall tower built not on bedrock, but on sand. The entire construct comes tumbling down when one starts looking at the fallacies upon which it is built.
This is referring to the regards to eternal salvation.

Please tell us about those fallacies. And please don't regurgitate the old saw about primitive cultures and their beliefs and such. Name the fallacies that pertain to the plan of salvation where the bible hasn't got it right..
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:06 PM  
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Mill Creek, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorph View Post
Yeah and the ten commandments are vast overkill. Should someone honor their father and mother if one is a murderer and the other is a meth addict?

One statement from the new testament should suffice as moral instruction for the entire world. "Do Unto Others What You Would Have Them Do Unto You."

That pretty much describes the efforts of primitive mankind, repetition and overkill.
Dorph: You have got that right as far as you go.

When asked of Jesus "What is the greatest commandment He replied: "To love God and love your neighbor as your self."

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Old 07-09-2011, 12:12 PM  
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In Calvinist terminology, the non-elect are often referred to as the reprobate

Wiki

Reprobation, in Christian theology, is a corollary to the Calvinistic doctrine of unconditional election which derives that some of mankind (the elect) are predestined by God for salvation. Therefore, the remainder are left bound to their fallen nature and eventually to eternal damnation. This same state of unbelief is also known as reprobation. In Calvinist terminology, the non-elect are often referred to as the reprobate. Similarly, when a sinner is so hardened as to feel no remorse or misgiving of conscience, it is considered as a sign of reprobation.
Reprobation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or;

rep?ro?bate/ˈreprəˌbāt/
Noun: An unprincipled person (often used humorously or affectionately).
Adjective: Unprincipled (often used as a humorous or affectionate reproach). More ?
Dictionary.com - Answers.com - Merriam-Webster - The Free Dictionary


This 2nd is the common use of the term in today's society.

The Calvinistic doctrine of Reprobation
Quote:
As stated in the Canons of Dordrecht, First Head (Chapter 1) Article 15 [1]:
Moreover, Holy Scripture most especially highlights this eternal and undeserved grace of our election and brings it out more clearly for us, in that it further bears witness that not all people have been chosen but that some have not been chosen or have been passed by in God's eternal election-- those, that is, concerning whom God, on the basis of his entirely free, most just, irreproachable, and unchangeable good pleasure, made the following decision: to leave them in the common misery into which, by their own fault, they have plunged themselves; not to grant them saving faith and the grace of conversion; but finally to condemn and eternally punish them (having been left in their own ways and under his just judgment), not only for their unbelief but also for all their other sins, in order to display his justice. And this is the decision of reprobation, which does not at all make God the author of sin, but rather its fearful, irreproachable, just judge and avenger.
Reprobation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hieronymus Bosch, Death of the reprobate





buy that and I have some Florida swamps you might love.

Frankenstein and the Reprobate Conscience
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/56053728...TES-CONSCIENCE
The reprobate mind-hieronymus-bosch-death-of_the_reprobate.jpg 

The reprobate mind-reprobate-conscience.jpg 

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Old 07-09-2011, 01:08 PM  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldruggedcrosser View Post
This is referring to the regards to eternal salvation.

Please tell us about those fallacies. Name the fallacies that pertain to the plan of salvation where the bible hasn't got it right..
There's an old saying: "To a man with only a hammer, everything looks like a nail." I would argue that the Christian sees nothing but nails, and expects ideal results from an ideal hammer.

But I digress...


"Salvation" isn't the foundation of Christianity. "Salvation" rests on the idea that people are otherwise condemned, which rests on the idea that mankind will be divinely punished, which rests on the idea that mankind should be divinely punished, which rests on the idea that mankind can be divinely punished...

Now, we can climb the tower a bit, and drag explanation-bricks from higher up back down, jack up the tower and force-fit these ideas into place - but we can't change the foundation, the myriad of assumptions required for Christianity to make any sense whatsoever. We can build up the tower, and drag the Christian understanding of god back down. We can force-fit that brick into a gap, use it to reinforce our position.

We can drag down the idea of God, for example, and force-fit it under the ideas that mankind can and should be divinely punished. But then we ask the questions and make new assumptions in answer.


When the tower starts sinking into the sand, we drag more and more down bricks from the top, plant them on the sand of assumption, and keep building. We drag down parables and passages, assume they are true, and keep building, in a herculean effort to prevent the construct from toppling.



Science works differently. We dig up the sand, we plant the foundation on demonstrable truth, and we build slowly, carefully, and methodically. We constantly dig through the sand, trying to find additional bedrock truths upon which to build supports and reinforcements. If we discover that we mistook sandstone for bedrock (newtonian physics, for example) we tear down anything we built on that assumption. We can use that sandstone pier only to support our building efforts, not to support the building itself.

You asked me to name the fallacies of salvation, and demonstrate where the bible doesn't have it right. I cannot do that. If we assume the bible, salvation is the logical result. I cannot argue from within the construct of the bible any more than I can lift myself out of the muck by pulling on my own bootstraps. But I can point at the assumption, call it sand, and ask why.

Every time I do this, I'm told that faith is a virtue. Faith is just another word for the sand. The sand is useful - we can use it to move our equipment around, to form and test new ideas, new building methods. In this sense, yes, faith is a virtue. But as a basis upon which to construct an entire world view? No.
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