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Old 06-16-2011, 01:34 PM  
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Originally Posted by beechercreature View Post
so forcing your ideals on someone else to keep them in society as opposed to separated from it would be "good"?
not what I said, but if you feel that your ideals require forcing ideals on someone else that is what is wrong, I would want people to be treated ethically and fairly and not be put into groups that isolate themselves.
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you also need to define ethical. without either perfect good or evil to compare it to, there is no way to determine what is good or bad.
sure there is, you can't use a bible though. You have to see what improves society, what respects an individuals rights and freedoms, yes tit becomes a little murky where there is overlap
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Nope, fear of death keeps me from becoming a daredevil. It's the emptiness that the world offers and the holes in modern scientific theories that makes me search for a higher purpose to life.
come on "holes in the scientific knowledge"? so in otherwords until science can explain every last detail you will have an out to not have to understand it.....
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The bible has been found to be the most historically accurate tome known to man. Time and again the inaccuracies therein have been proven to be true after discovering physical evidence. (eg-the longheld view that Pontius Pilot never existed, proven wrong with the discovery of coins that held his image.)
Logic is not the enemy of faith, but it's champion.
historically yes it has some history, but that is besides the point, it also does claim the earth is flat and held up by four pillars...

again it is a collection of stories around at the time, not a mini encyclopedia, some may be true, but not one magical event has yet to be proven to be real.
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:02 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
doing things that are ethical, that help other people live together as a community instead of harming them or dividing them from society, that would be good
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
not what I said, I would want people to be treated ethically and fairly and not be put into groups that isolate themselves.
but that is what you said.

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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
sure there is, you can't use a bible though. You have to see what improves society, what respects an individuals rights and freedoms, yes tit becomes a little murky where there is overlap.
Improves according to who's perspective? There are billions of people with ideas on what is better and what is not. Why would the bible be an unacceptable guide to improve the world with? If everyone at least followed the ten commandments, how would the world as a whole not be improved?

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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
come on "holes in the scientific knowledge"? so in otherwords until science can explain every last detail you will have an out to not have to understand it...
yes the miriad of flawed theories, not knowledge, that abound. you may remember a few: the earth is flat, fish come from mud, the peppered moth, emergency theory*, etc.

*this one isn't a flawed theory, just makes me smile.

and, yes. If science wants to try and disprove anything i believe, they will need to provide evidence, not just a blanket arguement that all things related to God must be false because he didn't stamp MADE IN HEAVEN on every rock.
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:18 PM  
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Originally Posted by beechercreature View Post
but that is what you said.
look back, you act like I said pushing my beliefs on them was my point, which wasn't, people can believe what they want but they shouldn't be forced to by society
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Improves according to who's perspective? There are billions of people with ideas on what is better and what is not. Why would the bible be an unacceptable guide to improve the world with?
well the stoning of women who have unmarried sex or the genital castration for 2 reasons, also the severe hate for egyptians as well.
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If everyone at least followed the ten commandments, how would the world as a whole not be improved?
war over religion, christians tend to push the obvious ones that all cultures do agree on (no murder/theft etc) but ignor ethe other more controversial ones (I guarentee you go to any article about the ten commandments in classrooms and they will mention something along the lines of "why would anyone have an issue with being told not to murder someone" like they have no idea of the very religious nature of the other commandments...

I am the Lord your God
You shall have no other gods before me
You shall not make for yourself an idol
Do not take the name of the Lord in vain
Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy

those do not serve society and leave major areas of dispute between various religions
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yes the miriad of flawed theories, not knowledge, that abound. you may remember a few: the earth is flat, fish come from mud, the peppered moth, emergency theory*, etc.

*this one isn't a flawed theory, just makes me smile.

and, yes. If science wants to try and disprove anything i believe, they will need to provide evidence, not just a blanket arguement that all things related to God must be false because he didn't stamp MADE IN HEAVEN on every rock.
wow lame attempt to throw the bible falsehoods and try to blame them on science..... just amazing how low you are going here.....

he didn't do one single thing that conclusively proves himself NOT A DAMN THING! that's the issue, so don't act like it's not that there isn't enough proof, it's that there isn't a single observable piece of evidence, only beliefs it must have because we can't explain it any other way (even though most reasons have been explained away by science over the years).
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Old 06-16-2011, 02:30 PM  
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well, it seems that you've altogether missed my point (all of them) and have run out of good arguements of your own. this was fun for a while, but now back to the original topic.
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Old 06-26-2011, 03:08 PM  
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Pantheist


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I just found out I am a Pantheist!
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Old 06-26-2011, 07:31 PM  
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Originally Posted by beechercreature View Post
well, it seems that you've altogether missed my point (all of them) and have run out of good arguements of your own. this was fun for a while, but now back to the original topic.
just calling you out for evading my response to YOUR question to me, so don't try to pretend your response is anything but that
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:23 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
but why that over every other religion, what makes it any more valid? The question was a different level then some people are answering it at. I was not curious about what in whatever is in a holy book that says the religion is valid; every religion has that. But I was wondering what makes it any more logical or correct then any other religion out there?

is it blind faith? just what your parents believed, was there any hard evidence or true experience that lead you to believe in it? or again just blind faith? did you compare other religions? in depth? how do you dismiss most religions and choose one?
The ex-wino restored to his family had this testimony: I am a believer today because of a miracle. As Jesus turned water into wine, He turned my wine into furniture.

I choose Christianity because it has been demonstrated to me beyond doubt to be demonstrated by the supernatural power of God. The changes God has made in my personal life from within was not of anything I did or was worthy of. All the other religions are all about dead people. Christianity is about a live God and Savior. There is no body in the grave of Jesus.
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Old 06-28-2011, 09:48 PM  
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It's time for the truth

Redjeep wrote concerning the Bible this false statement:

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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
historically yes it has some history, but that is besides the point, it also does claim the earth is flat and held up by four pillars...

again it is a collection of stories around at the time, not a mini encyclopedia, some may be true, but not one magical event has yet to be proven to be real.
No, Redjeep you are wrong. This false idea is not taught in Scripture. I am tired of hearing you present this falsehood. Here is the real story presented in the Scripture.


Some Bible critics have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the ?four corners? of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west. Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun's rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving. Bible writers used the ?language of appearance,? just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly. [DD]

In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space, the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon. [DD]
A literal translation of Job 26:10 is ?He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end.? A spherical earth is also described in Isaiah 40:21-22??the circle of the earth.?
Note, the Biblical Hebrew word for ?circle? (חוג?chuwg) can also mean ?round? or ?sphere.?

?The Earth a Sphere?Certain astronomical relations were recognized very early. The stars appear as if attached to a globe rotating round the earth once in 24 hours, and this appearance was clearly familiar to the author of the Book of Job, and indeed long before the time of Abraham, since the formation of the constellations could not have been effected without such recognition. But the spherical form of the heavens almost involves a similar form for the earth, and their apparent diurnal rotation certainly means that they are not rigidly connected with the earth, but surround it on all sides at some distance from it. The earth therefore must be freely suspended in space, and so the Book of Job describes it: ?He stretcheth out the north over empty space, and hangeth the earth upon nothing? (Job 26:7).? (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)]

Proverbs 8:27 also suggests a round earth by use of the word circle (e.g., New King James Bible and New American Standard Bible). If you are overlooking the ocean, the horizon appears as a circle. This circle on the horizon is described in Job 26:10. The circle on the face of the waters is one of the proofs that the Greeks used for a spherical earth. Yet here it is recorded in Job, ages before the Greeks discovered it. Job 26:10 indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins. This suggests day and night on a spherical globe. [JSM]

The Hebrew record is the oldest, because Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible. Historians generally [wrongly] credit the Greeks with being the first to suggest a spherical earth. In the sixth century B.C., Pythagoras suggested a spherical earth. [JSM]

Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated the circumference of the earth ?within 50 miles of the present estimate.? [Encyclopedia Brittanica]

The Greeks also drew meridians and parallels. They identified such areas as the poles, equator, and tropics. This spherical earth concept did not prevail; the Romans drew the earth as a flat disk with oceans around it. [JSM]
The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth's spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. [DD]

The implication of a round earth is seen in the book of Luke, where Jesus described his return, Luke 17:31. Jesus said, ?In that day,? then in verse 34, ?In that night.? This is an allusion to light on one side of the globe and darkness on the other simultaneously. [JSM]
It is also interesting to note that there are 16 scriptures which refer to God stretching out the heavens. These are remarkable confirmations that the Bible is true, as we know today that the heavens are rapidly expanding. [TH]
?When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate.?

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Old 06-29-2011, 11:39 AM  
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Ref, I went many years agreeing with that till it hit me I'd reversed the equation.

If any religion is what God intended He wouldn't be left to sort out which is near enough to His intentions to get included with it. This is God we're speaking of and I have little doubt he'd have cleaned out more than a few Temples by now making his point as to which he meant us to follow.

Nor do I see religion often as interested in serving His wishes as it's own priorities.
"but I don't know."

Nor do any of us but we sure try hard to sort out his wishes and do the best we can. I thank Catholicism and the Commandments for giving me a good outline as to behavior. I have little use for hidden pedo priests and the Old Boys Club of Rome anymore.

In the end I simply noticed I was growing spiritually better outside religion than I had within. I like it and I'm pragmatic. As long as this seems to work for myself and God I remain irreligious and aglow within.
blucher the one thing I have noticed about your posts is that you come over as "one offended" by religion thus a "doubter" which is far different from the outright expression of hatred toward God that is so commonly expressed on this forum.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:29 PM  
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I did so because I know the truth and how many religions today switch it up for their own gains. Just like the laws of the land, speed limits, immigration, etc., the laws of GOD are to be obeyed. We don't pick what we want to obey. Also, I needed to get it tight because the atheists goals are to get religion banned from public, or churches and soon you will only be able to worship at home.
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