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-   -   AR-15/M-4/M-16 Thread (https://www.cityprofile.com/forum/outdoor-recreation/ar-15-m-4-m-16-thread-4135/)

rnemovr 10-26-2010 04:42 AM

AR-15/M-4/M-16 Thread
 
I am just ordered my first M-4 ( a S&W M&P 15) through my unit as part of a "Unit Commemorative Pistol Program" (I also ordered the Colt 1911). They have custom engraving with Unit name and when we Deployed and few other things, other than that it is what you see in the link.

Anyway what are some must have add-ons for the M4? I already have a very bright Tact light with tail cap and pressure grip switch. Plan on adding Picatinny rails and a sling maybe a foward grip/bi-pod. What else is a must have? Looking at sights/optics/scopes.

Brian 10-27-2010 01:45 PM

Here's my opinion, and it's worth every penny you paid for it. :D

A light on an AR isn't necessary. Lights are fine for close-combat firearms like handguns and shotguns, but AR's aren't suitable for home defense unless you live in the middle of nowhere and you don't need to worry about overpenetration.

I'd get a good sight -- EOTech or ACOG -- and a vertical foregrip. I'd probably add a two-stage trigger if it doesn't have one already. A sling is awfully convenient, too.

Anything else is probably just tacticool which increases weight and doesn't add a heck of a lot of functionality.

Good:
https://66.67.41.182/rw/images/ar-r.jpg

Not so good:
https://66.67.41.182/rw/images/doesth...yarlookfat.jpg

Austin 10-28-2010 09:18 AM

You can't find those swiss army knives with a spoon any where. I looked.

JCJ 10-28-2010 09:45 AM

I always lose the tooth pick..

I have 2 consecutive ser# Stag 16" flat top AR's, one with an ACOG, full rail and forward grip and the other with a cheap Vortex Strikefire. I own a tac light but have zero use for it.

I have another that is a Bushy A1, full 20" gas system barrel cut down to 16" with iron sights with a full length plain Jane hand guard, it runs the best out of the 3.


I've had the most fun with my AR's with the .22 conversion kit, best bang for the buck, IMO..

rnemovr 10-28-2010 11:30 PM

i have thought about the 22 conversion but wasnt sure. what are other personal opinions on the conversion?

Jake7 10-29-2010 12:27 AM

Are you going to be using this tactically, or is this for personal use only?

rnemovr 10-29-2010 02:17 AM

more so personal. i have a 12ga that i use for home defence and a pistol for self defence

Brian 10-29-2010 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnemovr (Post 32281)
i have thought about the 22 conversion but wasnt sure. what are other personal opinions on the conversion?

They work fine, but the cost of .22 rifles is generally pretty low. Personally, I'd rather have the second rifle than a conversion kit.

If the primary purpose of your AR is to install holes in paper at a couple hundred yards, I'd focus on optics (no pun intended). Get a decent scope or at least a holosight.

craig801 10-31-2010 07:19 AM

I'd recommend a vertical grip and a good scope.

rnemovr 11-01-2010 02:32 AM

what are some scopes you recommend? size/power

Deepskyy 11-05-2010 12:39 AM

You will love the M&P. I did mine, except for the fact that it was chambered in 5.45X39
PITA to find around here after a while. I sold it. I want to get another later that is 5.56.
The .22 conversion is really nice because you can work on trigger discipline without burning up expensive ammo. I'd suggest getting one.
Outside of that, I had a folding vert grip and a good sling with a T dot sight, not a scope. Unless yours has a DM barrel on it, I wouldn't bother with anything over 4X. Have a good bolt action rifle for that.
This is what it looked like except for the grip.
https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b.../showem032.jpg
And with the grip. I did have a light on it for a while, but switched it out to my 870.
https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...oMX5/002-2.jpg
Right now I have a DPMS Panther lite that is just as plain jane as can be. I even ditched the adjustable stock for a fixed. It weighs like 6lbs with a full mag.
This was before I switched out the stock.
https://i208.photobucket.com/albums/b...5/girls063.jpg

rnemovr 11-05-2010 04:08 AM

deep, thanks for the info. only issue is PB is blocked on govt computers

RNDDUDE 11-11-2010 02:14 PM

Ahhh, that funny photo of Paul Kim with all of the lights shows up on yet another internet sight! He was the former VP of engineering at Surefire, where I currently work.

sharps_74 11-11-2010 07:53 PM

I know it is not an M4. However, I think a suppressor is great and the brass catcher is as handy as a shirt pocket.


https://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s..._74/Pic439.jpg

Brian 11-12-2010 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharps_74 (Post 36731)
I know it is not an M4. However, I think a suppressor is great and the brass catcher is as handy as a shirt pocket.


https://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s..._74/Pic439.jpg

OK, yeah, a brass catcher is a useful item. I'll give you that. And they're cheap. :) A suppressor...isn't cheap and doesn't suppress much unless you hand-load subsonic .223 or buy subsonic 5.56. And you need a Class III license for a suppressor. And they're still banned in bass-ackward states like New York. :mad:

Deepskyy 11-12-2010 03:00 PM

But it does look mean as hell. :D

rnemovr 12-09-2010 08:39 AM

that one almost looks like the golfball launcher

sharps_74 12-09-2010 02:58 PM

Suppressors are not too hard to get or build legally. I load my own 55gr. bullets and even though they are moving at about 3300FPS the noise is about like the crack of a .22 from close up. You do not need a class 3 license unless you sell them. And depending on whether you buy or build will tell you what form you put it on.

brewnnlovnit 12-22-2010 12:00 AM

I have a M&P lower that I assembled and it is great. Adjustable stocks are useful for different shooting positions. I just use iron sights for now because I'd like to enter an NRA match. Free floating handguards are good even if you don't mount anything on them because of the increased accuracy they bring. A brass catcher or deflector is a good idea because the brass really tends to fly. A chamber safety flag is good for ranges.

Brian 12-26-2010 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sharps_74 (Post 52139)
Suppressors are not too hard to get or build legally. You do not need a class 3 license unless you sell them. And depending on whether you buy or build will tell you what form you put it on.

It is my understanding that you absolutely may not build any Class III device whether you intend to sell it or not. If I'm mistaken, can you please point me to the law, code or statute that says it's OK for an individual to build their own Class III device if they intend to use it themselves and never sell it or give it away?

RNDDUDE 01-03-2011 10:08 AM

some clarification on legality of suppressors:

North America
In Canada, a device to muffle or stop the sound of a firearm is a "prohibited device" under the Criminal Code.[16] A prohibited device is not inherently illegal in Canada but it does require an uncommon and very specific prohibited device license for its possession, use, and transport. Suppressors cannot be imported into the country by civilians;[17] special licensing is required for businesses to import and sell suppressors, and they are typically only available to law enforcement, conservation agencies and the military.

The United States taxes and strictly regulates the manufacture and sale of suppressors under the National Firearms Act. They are legal for individuals to possess and use for lawful purposes in thirty-eight of the fifty states.[18] However, a prospective user must go through an application process administered by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), which requires a Federal tax payment of USD 200.00 and a thorough criminal background check. The USD 200.00 buys a tax stamp, which is the legal document allowing possession of a suppressor. The market for used suppressors in the U.S. is consequently very poor, which has driven innovations in the field (buyers want the height of technology, because they are basically "stuck" with the purchase). Suppressors are available in other countries for under USD 40,[19] but they can be of crude construction, using cheap materials and baffle designs. While suppressors in the US are more expensive (hundreds to thousands of dollars), they are generally built with highly advanced baffle stacks and exotic materials like Inconel and high-grade heat-treated stainless steels.[original research?] The following states have explicitly banned any civilian from possessing a suppressor: California, Delaware, District of Columbia, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, and Vermont.

The Federal legal requirements to manufacture a suppressor in the United States are enumerated in Title 26, Chapter 53 of the United States Code.[20] The individual states and several municipalities also have their specific requirements.

mrmurdoc34 01-03-2011 01:11 PM

I agree with Brian I have never heard of you being able to manufacture your own Class III item.

You can build your own rifle and pistols but you may never sell them. They can be passed down through the family. There is a guy right now on FTF that is building his own 1911 from a basic 80% forging frame.

Brian 01-03-2011 06:03 PM

Right, RNDDUDE, that's what I thought. Thanks. Not that it matters much, but I'd be entertained to read the reasoning of whatever gaggle of legislators thought making these hard to get was a good idea. What's the rationale?

Brian 01-03-2011 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmurdoc34 (Post 65209)
You can build your own rifle and pistols but you may never sell them. They can be passed down through the family. There is a guy right now on FTF that is building his own 1911 from a basic 80% forging frame.

How does that work for folks in states where merely touching a handgun without a permit is considered a felony? Can a clown like me in New York build a handgun from scratch and own (not carry) it with a reasonable expectation of protection by law?

mrmurdoc34 01-04-2011 09:40 AM

Brian you would have to comply with your state as well as federal laws.

I stand corrected you can manufacture a suppressor SBR or SBS (Short Barreled Rifle, or Shotgun) for you rpersonal use you have to fill out the Form -1 and pay your $200 tax stamp and get approval.

CHAPTER 6. MAKING NFA FIREARMS BY NONLICENSEE
Section 6.1 Requirements for making NFA firearms. Persons not otherwise prohibited from
possessing firearms may submit an application to make an NFA firearm, other than a machinegun.
93

The application process requires submission of ATF Form 1, Application to Make and Register a
Firearm, in duplicate, along with FBI FD-258, Fingerprint Card, in duplicate, and payment of the $200
making tax. Appendix C contains a copy of Form 1.
Section 6.2 Preparation of Form 1. Every person (other than a licensed manufacturer who has also
paid the required SOT to manufacture NFA weapons) must complete the Form 1.

Two identical
copies of the application must be prepared. All entries must be made in ink. All required signatures
must be original and entered in ink. Photocopies or other facsimile or carbon copy signatures are not
acceptable. Under no circumstances will a form filled in by use of a lead pencil be accepted. All
changes made on the form must be initialed and dated by the applicant.
6.2.1 Description of firearm. If an existing firearm or firearm receiver is being used, the name and
location of the original manufacturer of the weapon should be entered in Block 4(a). If the applicant is
making a completely new firearm, the applicant?s name and location should be entered in Block 4(a).
The type of firearm being made, i.e., short barrel rifle, short barrel shotgun, any other weapon, silencer
or destructive device, is to be entered in Block 4(b). The caliber or gauge of the firearm is to be entered
in Block 4(c). If a model designation has been assigned to the firearm, that designation is to be placed in
Block 4(d). If the weapon has no model designation, enter ?none? in Block 4(d). The length of the
barrel is to be entered, in inches, in Block 4(e) and the overall length of the firearm is to be entered, in
inches, in Block 4(f).
All NFA firearms must be identified by a serial number and other specified markings

If an existing .
firearm is being used in the making of the NFA weapon, and that firearm is serialized, the existing serial
number should be used (unless it duplicates a serial number already used by the maker on Form 1) and
entered in Block 4(g). If the weapon is of new manufacture, the applicant must assign a unique serial
number and enter it in Block 4(g). For example, a unique serial number could be composed of at least 4
digits preceded by the initials of the maker. NOTE: alpha characters, e.g., a name, will not be accepted
as a serial number. If a name is to be used, there must be at least one numeric character in addition to
the alpha characters.
The serial number must be engraved or stamped on the receiver of the firearm and the caliber, model,
and identification of the maker must be engraved on the barrel or frame or receiver of the weapon.

The
marking and identification requirements for a maker are the same as for a manufacturer. Refer to
section 7.4 for a detailed discussion of the requirements.

93
18 U.S.C. 922(o)
94
26 U.S.C. 5822
95
27 CFR 479.102
96
Ibid 36
6.2.2 Photograph of applicant. An unmounted photograph of the applicant approximately 2 x 2 inches
and taken within the past year must be affixed to the indicated space on each copy of the application.
The photograph must be original. Photocopies of photographs are not accepted.

6.2.3 FBI Form FD-258, fingerprint card. A completed Form FD-258 containing the fingerprints of
the applicant must be submitted in duplicate with the Form 1. The fingerprints should be taken by
someone qualified to do so and must be clear, unsmudged and classifiable. The person taking the
fingerprints must also enter the identification data regarding the applicant and must complete the
fingerprint cards by signing as the person taking the fingerprints. NOTE: If the fingerprint cards are not
properly prepared or the fingerprints are not legible, the application cannot be acted upon. If this
situation occurs, ATF will contact the applicant for a new set of fingerprint cards.
6.2.4 Law enforcement certification. As provided by the regulations, the law enforcement
certification located on the back of Form 1 must be completed and signed by the local chief of police or
county sheriff, the head of the State police, the State or local district attorney or prosecutor, ?or such
other person whose certificate may in a particular case be acceptable to the Director.?

mrmurdoc34 01-04-2011 09:40 AM

Examples of
certifying officials, other than those specifically mentioned in the regulations, who have been found to
be acceptable are State attorneys general, heads of district State police offices and certain State court
judges. Judges? certifications have been accepted if the judges preside over courts of general
jurisdiction having original jurisdiction in all civil and criminal cases or the authority to conduct
criminal jury trials in felony cases. Generally, State magistrates and constables do not have such
authority. NOTE: no official?s certification will be accepted unless the official has jurisdiction over the
place where the applicant resides. The signature on each copy of the certification must be an original
signature in ink. NOTE: if the Form 1 being submitted is to reactivate a properly registered
unserviceable firearm, the law enforcement certification is not required. See Section 6.6.
6.2.4.1 What if the proposed maker is unable to find any official in his or her
jurisdiction willing to sign the law enforcement certification? The inability to find any
official to sign the certification will not excuse the requirement for the certification. In that
event, the proposed maker will not be able to obtain an approved Form 1 to lawfully make an
NFA firearm.
Section 6.3 Submission of Form 1. The completed Form 1, in duplicate, with fingerprint cards,
photographs of the applicant, and payment of the $200 making tax should be mailed to:
National Firearms Act Branch
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
244 Needy Road
Martinsburg, West Virginia 25405
Payment of the making tax is to be in the form of a check or money order payable to the Bureau of
Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
6.3.1 State permit or license for possession of an NFA weapon. If the applicant?s state of residence

97
27 CFR 479.63 37
requires a permit or license for the possession of an NFA weapon before the applicant takes possession,
a certified copy of the license or permit should be submitted with the Form 1 application.

Section 6.4 Approval of Form 1. Non-FFL/SOT?s may seek approval to manufacture an NFA firearm
(e.g., short-barreled rifles, short-barreled, shotguns, wallet guns, etc.) via submission of an ATF Form 1.
Upon receipt of the completed Form 1, ATF will process the application and, if approved, a tax stamp
will be affixed to the original of the form and the approved application will be returned to the applicant.
Approval by ATF will effect registration of the firearm to the applicant. Upon receipt of the approved
application, the applicant may make the firearm described on the approved Form 1. The approved form
must be retained by the applicant and made available at all times for inspection by ATF officers or
investigators. Note: Under no circumstances may the firearm in question be made prior to receipt of
the approved Form 1.
The approval of the Form 1 application authorizes the applicant to make the firearm. The approval does
not authorize the applicant to convey or ship the firearm to another person to manufacture the NFA
firearm. If another person will manufacture the NFA firearm, the other person would be the maker and
the application must be submitted by that person. Subsequent to the making, the firearm could then be
transferred, subsequent to an approved Form 4 application, to the person who wanted the modification to
be made.
If the applicant on the Form 1 lacks the skill, ability, and/or equipment to manufacture the NFA firearm,
the applicant, after receipt of the approved Form 1, can have the firearm created or modified at a
premises other than shown on the approved Form 1 as long as the creation or modification was done
under the direct oversight of the applicant, thus having the applicant retain custody and control of the
firearm. If the location is outside the applicant?s State and the firearm being made is a short barreled
rifle, short barreled shotgun, destructive device, or an unserviceable machinegun which is being
reactivated, the applicant will also need to request permission to transport the firearm interstate as
required by 27 CFR 478.28.
Section 6.5 Disapproval of Form 1. If the submitted application is disapproved, ATF will advise the
applicant, provide a reason(s) for the disapproval, and return the making tax payment.
Section 6.6 Reactivation of a registered unserviceable NFA firearm. The Form 1 may be used to
reactivate a properly registered unserviceable firearm, including registered unserviceable machineguns.
Block 4(i) of the form should indicate that a registered unserviceable weapon is being reactivated. The
remainder of the form should be prepared and submitted with the making tax in the same manner as
described above except that a law enforcement certification is not required. The existing serial number
on the unserviceable firearm should be used. If the reactivation will be performed by a Class 2
manufacturer, see Chapter 7 for additional information.
Section 6.7 Incorrect Description of Firearm. If the original registration document for the
unserviceable firearm contains incorrect descriptive information for the weapon, a letter should be
written to the NFA Branch providing the proper description and/or indicating what portions of the
description need to be changed. The letter should contain photographs of the actual markings on the
firearm. If a correction of the recorded serial number is needed, a photograph or pencil rubbing of the
serial number is required. ATF will provide a response indicating that the NFRTR has been amended to 38
reflect the correct information. This confirmation from ATF should be retained with the registration
document for the firearm.
Section 6.8 Withdrawal or Cancellation of an ATF Form 1 and Refund of Making Tax. The Form
1 applicant may withdraw the application by submitting a request, in writing, to the Chief, NFA Branch.
The applicant may also cancel an approved Form 1 application by submitting a request, in writing, to the
Chief, NFA Branch. The request for cancellation must state that the firearm was not made and must
include the approved Form 1 with the stamp affixed. The NFA Branch will amend the NFRTR to reflect
the withdrawal or cancellation of the application and arrange for the refund of the making tax. A request
for cancellation may only be done if the firearm has not already been manufactured. If the firearm is
made, the tax liability is incurred and the applicant cannot seek a cancellation.

mrmurdoc34 01-04-2011 09:52 AM

Again you are allowed to build a gun from an 80% frame if you are allowed by state law to buy that gun type in a store. You can't build an illegal AR-15 in CA or any other type if it is not legal in your state.

an 80% frame is a rough forging or casting of the frame that still need 80% of the work done to it. You need to locate and drill holes and do a lot of machine work to it.

jeep55 01-17-2011 10:25 AM

I have a problem with my ar
 
My ar-15 at times will not fire, if it does not fire I have to slam the butt on the ground while pulling back the charging handle. If I do not slam it I can not pull the handle back. Not sure what causes this. Is my chamber a little bit of a wrong size? Most of the time it works great. It is an Olympic with alot of new components, trigger, bolt assembly are new.
Any help would be appreciated.
Please no bashers, just ideas, please

Brian 01-19-2011 03:42 PM

Older Olympic Arms AR's had a reputation of not being quite up to MILSPEC and uppers/lowers, BCGs, trigger assemblies, etc. wouldn't necessarily fit or fit well. In some cases things fit fine, other times not at all. When was your rifle made?

Is the charging handle and bolt carrier group made by Oly Arms and did it come new with your rifle? If not, that could be your problem. Nothing's bent or broken, right?

If you need to smack it like that just to pull the charging handle to eject or chamber a round, something's wrong. I'd take it to a gunsmith and have it looked at.

You might also want to check out https://www.firearmstalk.com/ and post your question over there -- lots of people are very AR-literate and might be able to offer advice.


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