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Old 03-01-2011, 10:53 AM  
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Anyone who would be anti minimum wage......irregardless of what they say......has a vested interest in a company, and their own quality of life! Period. Minimum wage is in many cases, usery. It don't even need to be minimum wage to be usery. If the republicans had their way, all the workers would be getting child labor wages.
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:15 AM  
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Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
Anyone who would be anti minimum wage......irregardless of what they say......has a vested interest in a company, and their own quality of life! Period. Minimum wage is in many cases, usery. It don't even need to be minimum wage to be usery. If the republicans had their way, all the workers would be getting child labor wages.
If it makes you all warm and fuzzy inside to support minimum wage, then go ahead. The fact of the matter is, the extra money comes from somewhere, and that somewhere is the product cost (among other things). If you don't think that it comes from increasing the cost of a good or service, then you tell me where it comes from, because I could use some extra money myself if there is some money tree growing around here somewhere....

(And don't waste your breath on talking about companies/CEO's sacrificing profits to increase wages. That is not how it works. If you don't like it, sorry. Just how it is.)
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:42 AM  
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Price of oil is going up.......They must have raised the minimum wage! Cost of groceries keeps rising more and more........When was the last time the minimum wage was raised I wonder........? Hmmmmm.......... I'm thinking that minimum wage is in reality about to be stepped up. So you think then that the minimum wage should not be supported? What do you suppose would happen if that took place. Slavery was abolished by the way, and we won't allow Chinese in here yet, but give the conserves a few more years........
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Old 03-01-2011, 11:44 AM  
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Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
Anyone who would be anti minimum wage......irregardless of what they say......has a vested interest in their own quality of life! Period.
Fixed it for you. Yes, I have a vested interest in my quality of life. I'm not some rich guy collecting royalty checks. I'm not a trust-fund baby. I work for my earnings, and I don't want to be demoted every year or two. Don't cheapen the value of my skilled work by increasing the cost of menial labor. Minimum Wage is supposed to be adequate payment for menial labor. It's MINIMUM wage. It's not the wages of the common man. It's not a living wage. It's not a sole-breadwinner wage. It's the wages commanded by someone with no marketable skills.

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Minimum wage is in many cases, usery. It don't even need to be minimum wage to be usery. If the republicans had their way, all the workers would be getting child labor wages.
1. It's "usury" and 2. It's not usury. What's wrong with paying menial labor wages to menial laborers?
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:05 PM  
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Inflation is what makes your pay check less and less, not minimum wage, and by the way, many people work their butts off for that minimum wage too just like you work your butt of for your wage. I was just responding to the OP which was that it shouldn't go any higher. For your info also......People on Min wage arent getting rich either!
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Old 03-01-2011, 12:33 PM  
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Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
Inflation is what makes your pay check less and less, not minimum wage, and by the way, many people work their butts off for that minimum wage too just like you work your butt of for your wage. I was just responding to the OP which was that it shouldn't go any higher. For your info also......People on Min wage arent getting rich either!
You do realize that raising the minimum wage plays a part in creating inflation, right?

I don't doubt that minimum wage makers work their butts off. I started out on minimum wage. Have you read all the posts in this thread? Just wondering.

Oh yeah, and minimum wage isn't intended to get them rich.
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Old 03-01-2011, 01:28 PM  
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So, perhaps everyone should request that their pay is based on some factor of the minimum wage, that way when they increase the minimum wage, they also get an increase in pay.

What do you think it means if the minimum wage goes up, but your pay does not? That really amounts to a pay decrease. All of the costs end up being paid for by consumers as there is no magic source of money.

Consider a burger place selling burgers for $1 and paying their workers $5/hour. If they are forced to pay the workers $10/hour, do you think that they are not going to increase the price of the burger? Or they might hire less people or have them work less hours. Yes, the number is bogus and just for an example, but I am sure that some will say that the numbers are wrong in order to try to defend a defenseless position.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:03 PM  
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Originally Posted by YelloJeep View Post
You do realize that raising the minimum wage plays a part in creating inflation, right?

I don't doubt that minimum wage makers work their butts off. I started out on minimum wage. Have you read all the posts in this thread? Just wondering.

Oh yeah, and minimum wage isn't intended to get them rich.
Why are we even having this discussion? The thread was intended to mean that minimum wage earners should make less. If the minimum wage was to go down, lets say a buck an hour, do you think industry would lower their prices? I think not. When was the last time the minimum wage was raised? Without doing a search, it's been awhile! Prices on food are going up every month, and we already know that the price of fuel is rising. Are you going to blame that on the minimum wage? I'm fixing to laugh if you are! Here's how it works, in reality......Inflation goes up on everything, up to a point, then the minimum wage is increased, but only after some people decide to raise it. I believe it's voted on........ business owners whine and cry because they must cover the say extra 30 cents an hour increase they have to pay their employees, which just breaks them, I mean horribly! (I'm being sarcastic) so the actual cost per burger, or whatever, increases .03 cents per.....in actuality. So what does the business owner do? Well, he still needs to be able to afford his swimmimg pool cand boat, plus be able to pimp out his jeep and pitch a bunch of money into his retrement fund so he can retire at 48, so he now charges an extra 40 cents for the burger, so yeah, your right, it does contribute to inflation! The reality is that they both are chasing each others tail, but the minimum wage is not some master control mechanism for making things more expensive. Congress doesn't say........You know? Things are a bit too cheap these days, so lets raise the minimum wage. Other factors like greed (business minded folks wanting to make more money than they ever did before) fuel prices increasing and hence the cost of everything else going up. If minimum wage goes up, it means that everyone should be getting an increase because inflation has been taking place. You guys just have a vested interest in your businesses, or some relatives or friends business. Oh yeah, and minimum wage isn't intended for anyone to survive on much less get rich on. I appreciate the minimum wage, because it means that some folks at least can get somewhat of a wage and not have to be Chinese and live off nothing!
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:45 PM  
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Originally Posted by MistDaemon View Post
So, perhaps everyone should request that their pay is based on some factor of the minimum wage, that way when they increase the minimum wage, they also get an increase in pay.
Ok, so we raise everyone's wages proportionate to the increase in minimum wage. Now everyone is earning 10% more. Costs rapidly increase 10%. The long-term effect of this plan is to decrease the value of everyone's savings.

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Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
Why are we even having this discussion? The thread was intended to mean that minimum wage earners should make less. If the minimum wage was to go down, lets say a buck an hour, do you think industry would lower their prices? I think not.
Then you fail Basic Economics.

I cut the rest of your comment as it's been argued ad nauseum and added nothing to the discussion


I was thinking about the problems this evening. This is the idea I came up with:

1. Determine "Living Wage" - I would calculate this as a wage wherein a full-time worker will earn 10% above the poverty line.

2. Require employers to pay at least 80% of their hourly employees at least living wages.
2A: Require *all* salaried employees be paid the equivalent of at least a living wage

3. The remaining 20% must be paid at least a certain minimum wage.


Now, this would definitely be an intrusion of public interests on "private" business. I think though, that that it would solve a number of problems on both sides of the minimum wage debate. I'd ask that conservatives give me a little slack on this.

I'd also ask liberals to give me a little slack and decrease minimum wage such that it is adequate compensation for unskilled, entry-level positions only. Remember, most employees are going to be earning at least a living wage.

I think it's a fairly radical change, but I think it would have a positive effect a wide variety of problems, from public assistance to inflation to regional economic disparity, and without overly burdening either individuals or businesses, any particular social class, or government.

I had some thoughts about the 80/20 figure as well... I think it should be set at the county level, and should reflect the percentage of people at or below the poverty line. I think it should be skewed a bit - if 25% of the population is below the poverty level, only 20% of hourly employees can be paid less than a minimum wage. Employers would have a strong incentive to invest in impoverished areas - if 100% of the population in an area is below the poverty level, they can pay, say, 90% of their employees minimum wage. But, the increased investment would naturally improve the economy of the area, increasing the number of people above the poverty line, and eventually requiring the employer to pay more people a living wage.

I'm looking for ideas - please criticize all you want, but if you do, please offer a better alternative.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:33 PM  
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Respectfully sir, I don't think so whatsoever! The factors I outlined contribute to inflation far worse than minimum wage, whether you accept it or not. Increasing demand in other countries for fuel and other resources are perhaps one of the biggest contributors to your dwindling paycheck, and greed is the other! People at the top want to make more money as MIAB said. It is the reality and anyone living from paycheck to paycheck will agree with me. . There is a pro business attitude here, that does not account for human nature when it comes to the Darwinian aspect of greed. I feel content that the federal government does a great job of keeping the min wage in check, with states taking it higher as they see fit. Businesses complain, and if a burger joint or janitor position could be shipped overseas, well, American businesses would do that to make even more money. To further galvinize my point about what you just passed off..... If a manufacturer was making a product in America, and paying a decent wage.......then shifted their labor force over to China or India, and paid pennies an hour for labor, the price of the product in this country would not go down even in the slightest, and likely, the price would go up, just because. In closing, I'm going to bow out of this discussion, because I don't want to create enemies here, but I wanted to tell you that I am not anti business. Far from it, I just think that there is an element coming from you guys that suggests to me that you either own a business, or have a relative who owns one, or you guys are retired after selling a business. In either event, given the unemployment figures we see on the news these days, and knowing full well, that many skilled people are indeed being forced to accept min wage, I feel sir, that unless you've lived on min wage as the other fellow suggested, for a 12 month period, you just have no clue what it's like, irregardless of what you say. A person just simply cannot make a house payment or raise a family on it. Sorry, but that's just the plain reality. These discussions really don't change anything and minimum wage will be protected and a right in this country and in my mind, that's all that really matters to me. Basic government protections in place to keep the business community playing at least partially fair. That's it and take care!
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