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Old 05-19-2012, 04:00 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
try to be fair eddie, how many would prefer this over wind, it's a comparison issue. between the two I bet you most people would choose wind power

I am fair, I wouldn't choose either. Have you compared the energy output of the systems?
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Old 05-19-2012, 04:02 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
try to be fair eddie, how many would prefer this over wind, it's a comparison issue. between the two I bet you most people would choose wind power.
I am fair, I wouldn't choose either. Have you compared the energy output of the systems?
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:19 PM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
I am fair, I wouldn't choose either. Have you compared the energy output of the systems?
no Eddie, it isn't, you are using a pc, so unless you are cranking it by hand to power it you will need electricity so "neither" is not a viable option, yes it does take more windmills than coal plants, what is your point?

when you make posts like this it is pretty obvious you are just trolling by the way.....
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Old 05-19-2012, 10:36 PM  
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Energy 101. It is impossible to have wind turbines without fossil fuels, especially natural gas. Turbines average only 30% of their ?rated capacity? ? and less than 5% on the hottest and coldest days, when electricity is needed most. They produce excessive electricity when it is least needed, and electricity cannot be stored for later use.
There are a variety of storage mediums in use today that readily lend themselves to wind power. Google "Pumped Storage" for an example. Solar and wind adopters already use grid-tie inverters to backfeed the power grid and sell electricity to the grid. Those same inverters can be programmed to charge their battery packs when wind is producing "excessive" power, and sell it back when they cut out. Buy cheap power when it's available, sell it back when it's needed.

A smart grid can dynamically adjust itself based on power availability. Water heaters can be programmed to run a few degrees cooler when power is short, or several degrees hotter when there is an excess. Reverse that with freezers. Many other consumer products can be programmed to take advantage of cheap electricity when it is available.
Electric cars are already coming on the grid; they can be programmed to only "top off" the battery when there is excessive power available.

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Hydrocarbon-fired backup generators must run constantly, to fill the gap and avoid brownouts, blackouts, and grid destabilization due to constant surges and falloffs in electricity to the grid.
Today, perhaps. With the various storage solutions mentioned above, those backup generators don't have to be in a "hot" standby - they can be in a warm, or cold standby. With smart appliances and industries diverting demand and grid-tie inverters and pumped-storage options handling the immediate needs, natural gas and other backup options can be kept at a lower state of readiness, as they will have much more lead time to meet demand.
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Wind turbines frequently draw electricity from the grid, to keep blades turning when the wind is not blowing, reduce strain on turbine gears, and prevent icing during periods of winter calm.
And nuclear cores draw power from the grid to keep pumps turning, keeping the core cool when they are taken offline for maintenance, etc. All generators draw power from time to time.
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Environment 101. Industrial wind turbine projects require enormous quantities of rare earth metals, concrete, steel, copper, fiberglass and other raw materials, for highly inefficient turbines, multiple backup generators and thousands of miles of high-voltage transmission lines. Extracting and processing these materials, turning them into finished components, and shipping and installing the turbines and power lines involve enormous amounts of fossil fuel and extensive environmental damage. Offshore wind turbine projects are even more expensive, resource intensive and indefensible. Calling wind energy ?clean? or ?eco-friendly? is an extraordinary distortion of the facts.
Every issue here is an issue for *every* modern generation system.
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Environment 201. Wind turbines, transmission lines and backup generators also require vast amounts of crop, scenic and wildlife habitat land. Where a typical 600-megawatt coal or gas-fired power plant requires 250-750 acres, to generate power 90-95% of the year, a 600-MW wind installation needs 40,000 to 50,000 acres (or more), to deliver 30% performance.
You can plant crops under a wind turbine. You're not losing 40,000 to 50,000 acres of cropland to install 600MW of wind turbines. You're losing the footprint of the towers, that's about it.
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And while gas, coal and nuclear plants can be built close to cities, wind installations must go where the wind blows, typically hundreds of miles away ? adding thousands of additional acres to every project for transmission lines.
Hundreds of miles away? It's pretty hard to be even 50 miles from a significantly large city in the US.


I was going to go through every point, but most of them rely on the points I've already rebutted.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:06 PM  
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RA your rebuttals are mostly for your own satisfaction.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:10 PM  
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Originally Posted by RedJeepXJ View Post
no Eddie, it isn't, you are using a pc, so unless you are cranking it by hand to power it you will need electricity so "neither" is not a viable option, yes it does take more windmills than coal plants, what is your point?

when you make posts like this it is pretty obvious you are just trolling by the way.....
I failed to make my point, I meant I wouldn't choose to live near either. However, not to worry there is no wind near me.
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Old 05-19-2012, 11:39 PM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
RA your rebuttals are mostly for your own satisfaction.
Eddie, the point is that if there is a need to balance electrical supply and demand with a variable production source, the technology exists to fill that need. It just needs to be rolled out. The fact is that this need simply is not as great as its detractors make it out to be.

The issues about it being unprofitable without subsidies is complete bull****.
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:31 AM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
Eddie, the point is that if there is a need to balance electrical supply and demand with a variable production source, the technology exists to fill that need. It just needs to be rolled out. The fact is that this need simply is not as great as its detractors make it out to be.

The issues about it being unprofitable without subsidies is complete bull****.
I have nothing against the technology but all technology has an environmental impact. The "greenies" are just parroting the politically correct track without realizing there is real impact that is not green. Let's pull the subsidies and see if it can survive.
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:53 PM  
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Originally Posted by Eddie_T View Post
I have nothing against the technology but all technology has an environmental impact. The "greenies" are just parroting the politically correct track without realizing there is real impact that is not green. Let's pull the subsidies and see if it can survive.
Didn't you argue for oil subsidies?
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:22 PM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
Didn't you argue for oil subsidies?
Not that I recall.
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