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Old 06-16-2011, 06:26 PM  
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Originally Posted by Old-Goat View Post
I spent some time in Boston out in the burbs. There I was treated to the electronic amplified call to prayer 5 times a day, whether I wanted to hear it or not.

That is what it is like to have the "Muslims next door."
yes it aweful to have someone try to push their religion onto you, whether it be those loudspeakers or constant proselytizing it's all annoying.
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Old 06-17-2011, 01:05 AM  
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Originally Posted by Old-Goat View Post
I spent some time in Boston out in the burbs. There I was treated to the electronic amplified call to prayer 5 times a day, whether I wanted to hear it or not.

That is what it is like to have the "Muslims next door."
Ever hear church bells?

<tangent>
I spent a couple months living with my grandparents. They had a big Grandfather Clock that would chime the Westminster Quarters - every 15 minutes, there was some sort of bonging or another. Made it real easy to stay on task. For awhile, I had my computer chime the same sequence. Anyone who suffers from ADD, I recommend something similar.
</tangent>
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Old 06-17-2011, 02:09 AM  
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Originally Posted by Hillman

I was thinking about my previous response to the your statement above. I considered editing my previous remarks but that might be construed that I was wrong or mistaken. I firmly believe what I clearly stated in reference to your comments. I was only responding to you, RedJeep, and unfortunately ignoring the broader possible audience. In clarification there are 2 major positions in reference to God's grace; (1. A liberal view point or Armenianism, which gives responsibility for one's salvation to the person not God. It is by their free will that they accept grace or refuse it. Salvation is offered to all but can be rejected. These are very elementary definitions but they will suffice for this entry. Then there is (2. a conservative view or Calvinism. This view puts the (salvific) decision in the hands of God, respecting His sovereignty over that of man, and also respects man's free will.

Scripture is clear, God is sovereign, faith is a gift, and election is a reality. Calvinist hold that scripture is on their side while Armenians hold that scripture is on their side. I previously revealed my conservative beliefs. With all that can be debated the Calvinist view that God is sovereign over salvation trumps the Armenian view that man decides his will to accept or not accept grace. With that being said, both positions assume the acceptance of Christ as Lord over their lives. That is the "simple" theological constant.

Soooo, your statement, "...you really think he couldn't forgive someone for being born in a position where christianity wasn't forced upon them even if they did great humanitarian things?", has the meat of perceived validity but it still fails the theological reasonablity test. Salvation is not geographically based (as in being born somewhere). God is revealed in everyone's heart; believers and rejectors alike. That revelation manifest itself in acceptance or rejection. With out that revelation, this debate would not be taking place. You cannot reject something you do not know, philosophically or otherwise. Again you attempt to debate a subject you not only are challenged by and over, but your insistence on the "doing (humanitarian) things" as an argument is........

I would be honored to help you better understand what you think you reject. Just let me know.

I remain in my hope for you!
Hillman, I respect your longevity in this discussion. Whilst I don't agree with all of your interpretations, I just wanted to let you know that its very impressive! I learn a lit throughout any discussion you're involved in it seems.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:45 AM  
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Originally Posted by Jake7 View Post
Hillman, I respect your longevity in this discussion. Whilst I don't agree with all of your interpretations, I just wanted to let you know that its very impressive! I learn a lit throughout any discussion you're involved in it seems.
Thanks! I appreciate that!
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:52 AM  
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Originally Posted by Old Rugged Crosser View Post
I spent some time in Boston out in the burbs. There I was treated to the electronic amplified call to prayer 5 times a day, whether I wanted to hear it or not.

That is what it is like to have the "Muslims next door."
Surely it must have fit within a sound ordinance though. I mean I've worked in burbs before and the usual lawn mower or cars make you swivel your head too whether you wanted it or not. but you can't exceed a certain noise level, so it couldn't have been that bad right?
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:02 PM  
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Originally Posted by rivalarrival View Post
Ever hear church bells?

<tangent>
I spent a couple months living with my grandparents. They had a big Grandfather Clock that would chime the Westminster Quarters - every 15 minutes, there was some sort of bonging or another. Made it real easy to stay on task. For awhile, I had my computer chime the same sequence. Anyone who suffers from ADD, I recommend something similar.
</tangent>
I lived 200 yards from a large UCC church in the heart of German country PA. One day while gardening the carillon began playing Deutschland Uber Alles. WHAT the heck????????

I phoned them and suggested the Nationalist dreams of Prussians and Nazis wasn't the best choice of religious music. This same area interned several folks during WW II for Bund activity.

There were two mosques in an Allentown PA suburb but neither made audible prayer calls.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:15 PM  
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Originally Posted by Musicinabottle View Post
Surely it must have fit within a sound ordinance though. I mean I've worked in burbs before and the usual lawn mower or cars make you swivel your head too whether you wanted it or not. but you can't exceed a certain noise level, so it couldn't have been that bad right?
depends on how "critical" it is considered to religion, sadly religious "freedom" trumps local laws in many situations.

And considering both christianity and islam both use differing methods of brainwashing (constant services prayers so you don't step back and question it) I'd say it would be an easy argument that the religion needs it as a critical part.
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Old 06-17-2011, 01:48 PM  
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Originally Posted by Musicinabottle View Post
Surely it must have fit within a sound ordinance though. I mean I've worked in burbs before and the usual lawn mower or cars make you swivel your head too whether you wanted it or not. but you can't exceed a certain noise level, so it couldn't have been that bad right?
It was loud enough that I thought my car radio had changed stations. Remember that Boston is liberal heaven. They allow anything that will tweak a conservative.
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Old 06-17-2011, 02:00 PM  
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Remember that Boston is liberal heaven. They allow anything that will tweak a conservative.
As much fun as that sounds I suspect there is no conspiracy afoot to further confuse what passes for conservatives these days.

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Old 06-17-2011, 02:04 PM  
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Originally Posted by Old Rugged Crosser View Post
...... Remember that Boston is liberal heaven. They allow anything that will tweak a conservative.
or could it be that since it is a larger city they have a bigger variety of people and when other religions are given the same level of leeway based on religion as christians then christians don't like it?
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